Sunset behind a Torso

Was thinking of posting this picture in B&W, but went for color. I think I'll shoot this on film.

Asher,

Its been snowing all day here - so looking at the this warms me up - I find this image difficult to read. is the subject the statu or the buildings - there is a jmovment with the pan type image that makes sense because of the street name.. to much dark in the mid/bot --- shadow could have been left in ... i will stop back again and get warm..

cheers

Mark Hampton said:

Asher,

Its been snowing all day here - so looking at the this warms me up - I find this image difficult to read. is the subject the statu or the buildings

Click to expand...

Mark Hampton said:

- there is a movement with the pan type image that makes sense because of the street name..

Click to expand...

I'll try it n B&W. colors might be too distracting and not needed.

Get Warm!

Asher

Sunset on Rodeo Drive



Mark,

Are you more comfortable now?

Asher

RE: Sunset on Rodeo Drive in B&W

Asher:

Your photo: Sunset on Rodeo Drive in B&W is ready to be printed to be sold in a modern art gallery!

Thanks Will for your kind words.

Asher

IMO, the B&W takes it hands down.
The original color version seemed lifeless.
The tones in this are creamy, almost dreamlike.
Well done Asher!

Asher,

You did more than switch to monochrome...
You changed the aspect ratio. Now it doesn't feel cramped.

Asher Kelman said:

Asher Kelman: Sunset on Rodeo Drive"
Rodeo Drive, Sigma 8mm 5DII, stitched in Autopano Giga

"Torso": sculpture by Robert Graham, 2003, located in and centered on Rodeo Drive, Beverly Hills, CA

"A gift to the City of Beverly Hills. Commissioned by the Rodeo Drive Committee on the inauguration
of the Rodeo Drive Walk of Style/Beverly Hills. Honoring legends of fashion and style, June 11, 2003"
​

Mark,

Are you more comfortable now?

Asher

Click to expand...

asher,

its getting there - as has been said the tones evn on screen and delicate - can I play with this?

cheers

I didn't see the glow in the original picture, did I just miss it or has it been added? Talking specifically about the traffic light and the building on the left.

Oh and tell the sculptor that he needs more megapixels in his hands, almost no detail in the face of that thing! Joking aside it annoyingly makes the image look like it was out of focus at that point. Nothing you could do about it and not sure anyone else sees it as an issue.

It's very interesting to see an architectural ultra wide pano whose distortion does not jar, quite an achievement Asher!

Ben Rubinstein said:

I didn't see the glow in the original picture, did I just miss it or has it been added?

Talking specifically about the traffic light and the building on the left.

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No glow added! you are seeing less harsh contrast perhaps.

Ben Rubinstein said:

Oh and tell the sculptor that he needs more megapixels in his hands, almost no detail in the face of that thing! Joking aside it annoyingly makes the image look like it was out of focus at that point. Nothing you could do about it and not sure anyone else sees it as an issue.

Click to expand...

The artist is already famous! nothing we can do about it! I find his work startlingly handsome. He places a strong woman of steel, (towering above us all, like Michalangelo's David), except that neither her head nor hands are needed to make her alive. Otherwise she's remarkably correct anatomically; in fact more than one would find in almost any other public place.

Ben Rubinstein said:

It's very interesting to see an architectural ultra wide pano whose distortion does not jar, quite an achievement Asher!

Click to expand...

Thanks, that's something I really like!

Asher

Asher,

thanks for allowing me to mess with the work - I just cropped it - I may be missing the point of wide images - I hope its not to annoying !





Looking at it again - the left side could be shifted perspective wise - I hope it still retains the sweep of the original .. Nice image to work with. Its not blue !

cheers

A few thoughts, for whatever they may be worth.

1. Color -vs- b&w is not the seminal issue here, Asher. Both look a bit over-cooked but the core issue, to me is..

2. Is this actually Robert Graham's work rather than yours? Whenever I photograph an artist's installation I remain mindful of what that artist's conceptual intentions probably were. Here I believe that Graham is actually having sport with the notion of "Rodeo Drive" by presenting this over-the-top Rennaissance-style torso sculpture as a visual gateway to the street of hedonistic excees. That Beverly Hills gladly accepted such a "gift" is a real hoot.

But, back to your photo, it seems to me that you've actually attempted to create an ad for Graham's work here. I'm not judging it as good or bad, but just highlighting the obvious.

3. Does a panoramic view -really- work here? Personally, I don't think so. Forget the optical geometry nits for a moment. The technique is creating more trouble than value. For example, that whole right side is a distracting, uninformative wasteland. You've also created an immediate visual relationship between the sculpture and...a traffic light? Personally I believe that a more conventionally-framed image would have worked much better.

You're clearly emotionally invested in a pano shot here. But it's just my opinion that it's not working.

Do I recall a wide image you shot of approximately this same location a year or two ago in the evening? That was an interesting scene from a detail perspective.

Ken Tanaka said:

A few thoughts, for whatever they may be worth.

1. Color -vs- b&w is not the seminal issue here, Asher. Both look a bit over-cooked but the core issue, to me is..

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This is actually an impulsive picture of the sun going down behind the torso in the position I enjoy viewing the entire wide and contrasting area. The view is indeed so wide because that's how I see it. (This was actually a draft. As I have indicated above, I'm taking further shots. That's how I work). These are several adjacent overlapping handheld snaps with my new 8mm fisheye lens to see how easy it was to sketch with the new lens. My intent is to be able to scout and then return with my tripod at the right time and make a high resolution orthogonal mage with a fine and longer lens. Here I'm working on the concept, the entire space of whch the Graham statue is just a key central part. At this time, the sun was behind the statue and that to me added an interesting component.

Ken Tanaka said:

2. Is this actually Robert Graham's work rather than yours?

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When you photograph any building or a person you might ask, "Who was the creator?" too. However, it's the current image that counts.

Ken Tanaka said:

Whenever I photograph an artist's installation I remain mindful of what that artist's conceptual intentions probably were. Here I believe that Graham is actually having sport with the notion of "Rodeo Drive" by presenting this over-the-top Rennaissance-style torso sculpture as a visual gateway to the street of hedonistic excees. That Beverly Hills gladly accepted such a "gift" is a real hoot.

Click to expand...

That's hilarious if it's true. OTOH, you may have initiated a fantastic and new urban legend! Perfect!

Ken Tanaka said:

But, back to your photo, it seems to me that you've actually attempted to create an ad for Graham's work here. I'm not judging it as good or bad, but just highlighting the obvious.

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Not so, rather a window on the world created for tourists to spend money in the stores. I will be doing more. This is just an obvious corner to start considerations. I do happen to admire Grahams work and this in particular.

Ken Tanaka said:

3. Does a panoramic view -really- work here? Personally, I don't think so. Forget the optical geometry nits for a moment. The technique is creating more trouble than value. For example, that whole right side is a distracting, uninformative wasteland. You've also created an immediate visual relationship between the sculpture and...a traffic light? Personally I believe that a more conventionally-framed image would have worked much better.

Click to expand...

Ken, you are right, the right side is architecturally dead compared to the left. I struggled with making a narrower view but that's not how I see it. The architecture on the left is a European world of architectural forms designed to attract the flood of Japanese and other tourists from the Wilshire hotel at the end of the street. It's only about 15 years old and totally a disneyland type reproduction mélange to house the elite of merchandising. The right side are the "real" and usual Beverly Hills stores where residents shop and just modern nondescript American commercial architecture. Not showing that makes the photograph just picture-postcard pretty.

Ken Tanaka said:

You're clearly emotionally invested in a pano shot here. But it's just my opinion that it's not working.

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I'd admit that but preface that by an esthetic sense of joining things together and de-isolating parts of a larger scene.

Ken Tanaka said:

Do I recall a wide image you shot of approximately this same location a year or two ago in the evening? That was an interesting scene from a detail perspective.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's just to the left and concentrates on the "Rodeo collection". I'm glad you remembered that.

You comments are helpful especially when your interpretation is at odds with my intent. For sure, I'd like to please the viewer as much as myself. However my own concept must drive me and that's iterative and still evolving. I was on a "scouting" tour with my 8mm lens with the idea of wide views. This particular picture was driven by the position of the sun and so I took it. Simple as that!

Here, for example, how the sculpture should be included has had me wondering. I have thought of staging a shoot with a small cast, climbing higher and other alternatives. So there's a lot of room for further work. It's all an enjoyment for me, but the intent is to have a collection of photographs that reflect my view of this unusual small town.

Asher

Asher, squint a bit and the sculpture in your pic looks like a lion, that's how I saw it and as such something didn't look right hence the 'blurred' comment. I didn't see it for what it was until you described it. My mind is just way too pure!

Mark Hampton said:

Asher,

thanks for allowing me to mess with the work - I just cropped it - I may be missing the point of wide images - I hope its not to annoying !

Click to expand...

On the contrary, it's revealing!




I'd even go further with your crop and remove much of the beautiful architecture on the left and have the Graham sculpture reside with the traffic light and simple "American-modern-commercial" architecture.

However, this would be a new picture for me to make. You have opened up that idea as several pictures together might perhaps better explain this junction of the little city. One picture including the elite facade stores on the left and the other the more functionally built structures on the right.

Asher

Just to illustrate how widely divergent ideas on cropping can be, I would have put the torso dead center.


Another interesting difference is that this statue bothers me. Asher sees it as representing a vitality so intense neither hands nor head are needed to give it life. I see it as a woman reduced to body only, objectified.

Whatever, Asher has created a very provocative image here.

Rachel Foster said:

Another interesting difference is that this statue bothers me. Asher sees it as representing a vitality so intense neither hands nor head are needed to give it life. I see it as a woman reduced to body only, objectified.

Whatever, Asher has created a very provocative image here.

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Hello Rachel,

My object was simply to stop for a moment and take advantage of the setting sun glowing from the end of Rodeo drive, between grand artistic buildings on the left and more simple industrial forms on the right. The sculpture just happened to be in a position to unify, or at least link, these disparate elements. So this is not meant to be a celebration of Graham's work, but rather of the diverse complex imagery of and in this neighborhood.

Robert Graham has done a lot of work in bonze. I'll search out more of his work to put this in context. His nudes are widely loved and collected. There's a gate freestanding in the Music Center plaza which stands above Grand Avenue, Los Angeles, and that has many figures embedded in it. Just remember that the Stainless Steel-clad artistic marvel, The Walt Disney Concert Hall was underway since 2009 and being completed in 2003.


The cladding with steel coming to L.A. was the buzz around town for over 5 years. So this was the context in which Robert Graham installed the nude torso in the center of Beverly Hills. In a way, he brought the curved riveted steel plates of Frank Gehry's Walt Disney Concert Hall masterpiece to the center of Beverly Hills to be celebrated on his nude, every day! Whether or not that was his conscious intention or not, I have not discovered, but certainly, that's what he did given the Iconic stature of the Frank Gehry building. Now Ken thinks he was having a big joke on the city, and as he says, that would be hilarious, but that seems just fun and speculation!

Graham. made numerous nude figures, some in sexual congress and others on their own. So there's a library of forms that one can draw on when looking at his work.

So meeting this new work in steel, Graham's previous, (complete and perfect), female forms come to mind. What's new here is the scale and the new patched riveted steel plate medium. Yes, there's more to startle one's attention in that her arms and her head is missing! But I don't believe he objectifies women. That, I think, would be a mistaken reading of his intent. It's more about trusting us. He only shows us a portion and allows us to add some identity we might need at that visit. When artists trust us to do that, I feel that's generous. Still, folk may be shocked that the female anatomy is quite specific, but I'm sure that most have not even noticed that.

Asher

Asher, I'm probably responding more from a feminist perspective than an artistic one. We respond to art from the totality of our experience and for me, that's what jumps out at me. I appreciated reading your opinion because it helps broaden my own experience.

Also, I neglected to say how much I love the effect of the sun behind the torso. That's wonderful.

Asher

My 3 cents

for me the statue seems very loud and garish
the photographer (That would be you) saw what was behind the statue
and the beautiful landscape of the buildings and the sort of wide angle effect works very well for me- how cool would it be behind the statue in black and white as a shot-
just a thought
love the picture without that statue

Charlotte

charlotte thompson said:

Asher

My 3 cents

for me the statue seems very loud and garish
the photographer (That would be you) saw what was behind the statue
and the beautiful landscape of the buildings and the sort of wide angle effect works very well for me- how cool would it be behind the statue in black and white as a shot-
just a thought
love the picture without that statue

Charlotte

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Charlotte,

For me, the sun hiding behind the statue was distinctive. This statue is well known and in the scale of the entire street is not so loud at all and fits in as does the traffic light on the right. There's space for both of them.

Asher Kelman said:

Asher Kelman: Sunset on Rodeo Drive"
Rodeo Drive, Sigma 8mm 5DII, stitched in Autopano Giga

"Torso": sculpture by Robert Graham, 2003, located in and centered on Rodeo Drive, Beverly Hills, CA

"A gift to the City of Beverly Hills. Commissioned by the Rodeo Drive Committee on the inauguration
of the Rodeo Drive Walk of Style/Beverly Hills. Honoring legends of fashion and style, June 11, 2003"
​

If you find the Graham sculpture garish, perhaps it's my photography and my choice of perspective. Or maybe, it's over the top but my judgment is too.

Asher

Click to expand...

Asher

your photo is very very nice my friend
I love most the perspective of the buildings and angle on either side the most
for me" the statue is oddly placed and it is just what I like is all/I just dont like that thing
love your color work as well and the crystal clean shot-

Charlotte-

charlotte thompson said:

Asher

your photo is very very nice my friend
I love most the perspective of the buildings and angle on either side the most
for me" the statue is oddly placed and it is just what I like is all/I just dont like that thing
love your color work as well and the crystal clean shot-

Charlotte-

Click to expand...

Charlotte,

I have been planning to get a score of models in just raincoats to straddle the street and make for an interesting central subject. Maybe we can over power her with real life and form!

Asher

my cents

hi Asher

regarding the panoramas - often they present something almost opposite to a photograph I mean in panoramas one sees everything, as it is ; it brings the viewer to a certain place where the photographer intervenes only to witness; while in composing a 3/4 photography the author eliminates or underlines certain aspects so the viewer can focus and understand much more rigorous what the photographer wants to transmit.

I think this wide picture - that naturally couldn't fit into a single view - is too complex to be judged as a photo and making a "portrait" of a sculpture even with its pretty glow isn't making any justice to the panorama. The statue, besides its message, cannot be taken out of context - the architectural surroundings - so here we have the chance to visit the place as it is. Thank you Asher - it is nice.

I personally would have chosen a station point very little farther from the statue and maybe exploit a little "eclipse" in full or partial sun - but that would have had a different message so in the end the entire work might be different.

I like both the color and the monochrome versions but in the monochrome a high-key might seem interesting (I suppose you can process the raws in that manner)

Asher Kelman said:

Was thinking of posting this picture in B&W, but went for color. I think I'll shoot this on film.

Click to expand...

Hi Asher,

I am joining this thread a little late. I much prefer the B&W version also, but I don't think it's because of the (lack of) colour, but rather your processing (much reduced contrast).

As you must have gathered from the replies, you have captured here a hemispherical slice of the world. Everybody picks different items from this world, and emphasise them through cropping. This is a very interesting development.

"Usually" the photographer does the complete interpretation of the scene by cropping, and posts it for all to see. You, on the other hand, have captured an expanse that is so interesting that everybody simply feels compelled to re-interpret it! Fascinating...

I think this has been discussed here before: Perhaps in the future we will have a device (let's call it a camera!) that samples the entire environment in which the photographer is standing, allowing for complete re-interpretation (re-photography) later on.

I'm not sure I like the idea, but what I find fascinating with this (and a couple of other similar) threads on OPF is that there is a clear tendency towards such behaviour.

By the way, your Walt Disney concert hall photograph is simply majestic.