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Mr. Netanyahu made Israel and the World proud today!

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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FhaUVmYBXD0>

Find a link to the transcript and READ it.

Israel and America are NOT bullies.

The World hangs in the balance.

Jim,

Your alertness to this news is commendable! In the West we value life and speech, even of the humblest person. Paradoxically for many, we also extend these values to our enemies. Anyone can love their friendly neighbor. It's our valuing the lives of those who's speech offends us, that differentiates the civilized man from the savage.

Sad that a disgruntled and hateful Egyptian, (an unusually misguided Coptic Christian living at this time in Los Angeles), dubbed crude anti-Islamic blasphemies over what the actors had been told was a humorous historical short movie. Worse, he posted it online, (claiming he was Jewish). Had this piece of trash been made against Christians or Gays, who would have made a stir, as it was so prejudiced, inarticulate and childish. Still, in the Muslim world this was considered an American product and riots swept from state to state, with major loss of life and properly!

The American Ambassador to Libya, (there to rebuild health facilities), get's assassinated, but not by these riots! In fact, the complex assassination plot was hatched, no doubt, way before the trashy video ever appeared. The murders were executed through a carefully orchestrated missile attack to flush out the Americans, followed by a coordinated and merciless assassination ambush on the expected escape routes! This was no reaction of a rioting crowd of protesters, but the savage behavior hateful terrorists on the anniversary of 9/11.

It's very comforting that masses of shocked and angry and amazingly brazen and brave Libyans forced the well armed militant from their bases. Moreover, the Libyan government immediately registered its deep-felt offense and sadness for our murdered embassy staff and officers. In other places, however, protection of embassy staff is not considered an obligation. More important to them is to be seen siding with the small proportion of the population taking to the streets with anti-US venom. What's ironic is the Obama has bent over so far backwards to support the "Arab Spring" movement, that he has hardly any ability to stand up for our own culture. In the process, he's abandoned loyal allies, astonished our military partners and infuriated long time suppliers of oil to the West! For all this, the U.S. is still demonized in the streets, except, thankfully in Libya! So this is, perhaps a time for a reality check for everyone. Where's the humanity in all this, I ask?

There's justifiable anger against the ill-made hate movie. But should it be enough to set fire to everything within a mob's reach? An Afghani Mulla burnt a holy Qu'ran as part of framing a young Christian peasant garbage collector girl and driving out these Christian pests. There were riots against the girl and she was rescued from mobs. However, when the truth came out and the priest was arrested, there were no riots for desecrating the holy Muslim writings.

Selective outrage!

In the same vein, which societies are pouring into the streets in support of defenseless Syrians civilians? Daily, these unarmed families are shelled from tanks and artillery and bombed and machine-gunned from the air!

Again selective outrage!

At the moment, the Syrians obviously don't warrant urgent attention either from the masses that riot or the "progressives" from Western nations. Where are those who constantly march in protest in London, Paris or New york with students, churchmen, workers movements, unions and a spectrum of those who regularly protest against the economies of the West, their "Imperialism" or "biased" Middle East Policies? Well these particular Sunnis, unlike the Iraqi Kurds or the Kuwaitis are obviously not worthy of that much empathy and outrage either inside the Arab world or in the West. Yes, some aid is given and even small arms. But why has there not been a "no fly zone" to protect civilians? We can't just have impotent UN mediators spend airplane miles, going in and out of Damascus for pointless discussions, that simply allow more time for slaughter of the innocents!

Until we value all God given life, we don't have a chance at peace. That is the state of things. But, that does not mean we should capitulate. On the contrary, we should explain ourselves, be generous, listen to concerns but keep our options open.

Asher
 

Jim Galli

Member
Good post Asher, especially your first thoughts.

Here's something to think about; Sort of the difference between YHWH and ullah. Ullah doesn't seem to have any arm of his own to do anything much. A few arab boys throwing dust in the air, throwing rocks, shooting guns, murdering innocent folks who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, burning houses down........is that all you got ullah??

YHWH, is also outraged at men who dis-honor Him. But He says Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay. Romans 12:19 Read the book of Revelation. Our God will repay, we don't have to....and soon I think.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Good post Asher, especially your first thoughts.

Here's something to think about; Sort of the difference between YHWH and ullah. Ullah doesn't seem to have any arm of his own to do anything much. A few arab boys throwing dust in the air, throwing rocks, shooting guns, murdering innocent folks who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, burning houses down........is that all you got ullah??

YHWH, is also outraged at men who dis-honor Him. But He says Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay. Romans 12:19 Read the book of Revelation. Our God will repay, we don't have to....and soon I think.

Jim,

I support you in every way, except don't think we should border on insulting anyone. Obviously the Abrahamic religions have one almighty God. What differs is the name and book we believe and follow with such devotion. Changing the name doesn't alter God or the wonder of creation! We may not be forgiven for worshipping for idols, but getting the name wrong is unlikely to be unforgiven for anyone who walks a path of righteous behavior and has deep sense of accountability. It's said by the sages that forgiveness was created before the earth and the heavens! True or not, it's a great idea to try to look at differences with a prism of love and forgiveness. We can be generous without being foolhardy.

Asher
 

Jim Galli

Member
Really Asher? Really??

The God who drives Ahmadinejad and Khamenei to exterminate the jews is the same God who chose the jews as His own.

The God who preserved the jews through all their wanderings and torment for all of the long centuries, and who brought them safely back into their own real estate (according to His promise) when the time was perfect according to His will, is the same God who is worshiped by their enemies that have completely surrounded them on all sides, and who won't rest until they are removed like some cancer?

This man who would anihilate 100 times more jews than Hitler, with his atomic bomb and consider it a great service of worship to his god, in fact worships the same God as you do?

Silly me, that just seems a little bit confusing that the God of Netanyahu, who pleads for peace and justice for all of his people, jews, arabs, moslems, and christians, is also the God of Ahmadinejad who lies continuosly as long as words are coming out of his lips, and who seethes destruction for the chosen people of . . . his god??

It's the same God, but he doesn't have control over his people or his book? That is obtuse.

Asher, you have a low view of God.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
I bought a ticket for this show by accident. I thought I was heading for the Garden of Eden (just south of Bulladella on the East Coast) and I turned up at a soccer riot between the haves and the think they haves. Seems like the ref lost the plot a few thousand years back and introduced some new rules where everyone had to be nice to one another. Trouble is both sides wanted to win and it seemed like 'nice' wasn't all that appropriate. So, while the ref wasn't watching, both sides got thoroughly stuck into each other. Now, when the crowd got sick of the whistle blowing and no-one wanted the ball (they just wanted to continue tackling), some bright spark called time out to sort out the mess. That's when the blame and name calling really started. Grown men fighting over what? An ideal world? Who's got the best god? Who can covert the most, who's in the black team or the white team, the one with the biggest prize at the end ( virgins or eternity - I just want a pie with sauce and a beer).
That's it then. I'm going home and watch the other match on the tellie. It's a rerun of a goodie where some dickhead floods the place because he's not happy with the way the game is going and wipes out everyone on both teams bar a few animals and a bloke with a beard and a boat.
You've got to give it to them, though. Jews, Christians, Muslims, and all the other teams. They sure have stamina. Stuck it out for this long without even half time break. Don't they know its just a game?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Really Asher? Really??

The God who drives Ahmadinejad and Khamenei to exterminate the jews is the same God who chose the jews as His own.

Jim,

It's not God who falls short here. Rather it's fanatics who simply want to run an agenda of hate and make up a new theology. That has nothing to do with the God of Abraham. No difference from the Catholic fanatics that burnt heretics in the name of God. It's not the idea of God that's at at fault, but the behavior of man.

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I bought a ticket for this show by accident.

Tom,

Normally we don't give refunds, but they say you are older now and less tempestuous, so we'll make and exception.

I thought I was heading for the Garden of Eden (just south of Bulladella on the East Coast) and I turned up at a soccer riot between the haves and the think they haves.

Well, you can feel good! You are in the garden of Eden. Your job, like mine is to be a gardener and make it work in spite of worms in the apples and the snakes!


Grown men fighting over what? An ideal world?

To me, an ideal world is when we respect each others right to be foolish or wise in our own private lives and then be accountable for the results.


Who's got the best god, Who can covert the most, who's in the black team or the white team, the one with the biggest prize at the end ( virgins or eternity - I just want a pie with sauce and a beer).

Jews are out of this game of membership drives these days. Conversions are left to those adapt at it -Christians, Muslims and the Mormons et al. Although we may have far better cheese cake, chicken soup and carrot cake!, Judaism claims no advantages of getting into any heaven for the good folk over any other religion!

You've got to give it to them, though. Jews, Christians, Muslims, and all the other teams. They sure have stamina. Stuck it out for this long without even half time break. Don't they know its just a game?

Tom,

It would be all a game if not for the fact that these Khamenei guys have a serious grudge against the Sunnis and real death threats against the Jews. Wish it was a game or it could be settled over a few drinks and some steak on the barb!

Asher
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Really Asher? Really??

The God who drives Ahmadinejad and Khamenei to exterminate the jews is the same God who chose the jews as His own.

The God who preserved the jews through all their wanderings and torment for all of the long centuries, and who brought them safely back into their own real estate (according to His promise) when the time was perfect according to His will, is the same God who is worshiped by their enemies that have completely surrounded them on all sides, and who won't rest until they are removed like some cancer?

This man who would anihilate 100 times more jews than Hitler, with his atomic bomb and consider it a great service of worship to his god, in fact worships the same God as you do?

Silly me, that just seems a little bit confusing that the God of Netanyahu, who pleads for peace and justice for all of his people, jews, arabs, moslems, and christians, is also the God of Ahmadinejad who lies continuosly as long as words are coming out of his lips, and who seethes destruction for the chosen people of . . . his god??

It's the same God, but he doesn't have control over his people or his book? That is obtuse.

Asher, you have a low view of God.

What if someone has NO view of god, Jim?

Seems like all that stuff you have been talking about might be due to the decisions of humans without anyone looking over them. Seems like a lot of responsibility or irresponsibility in this case is passed off to a convenient fantasy. There's a lot of huff and puff in the name of some lord of whomever with the fervour expressed in your writings here, Jim. Us atheists are pretty happy to drift along with the breeze and ignore it all but that does leave us in a peculiar position; nothing to fall back on when the **** hits the fan. We just have to blame ourselves and hope the human race can pull us all out of it all.
So, if you get a chance, Jim, can you put the religious stuff aside for a moment and see it all for what it is; humans arguing the point. It doesn't matter who's side you're on, it's a bloody stupid and dangerous thing to do.
And the Jew thing? If one feels the need to call themselves anything so they can feel like they belong is as big a mistake as calling oneself anything else. There will always be someone on the other team who wants to beat the **** out of you and vise versa. That's the way the game is played.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Asher,

Until we value all God given life, we don't have a chance at peace. That is the state of things. But, that does not mean we should capitulate. On the contrary, we should explain ourselves, be generous, listen to concerns but keep our options open.
Very well said.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Mark Hampton

New member
What if someone has NO view of god, Jim?

Seems like all that stuff you have been talking about might be due to the decisions of humans without anyone looking over them. Seems like a lot of responsibility or irresponsibility in this case is passed off to a convenient fantasy. There's a lot of huff and puff in the name of some lord of whomever with the fervour expressed in your writings here, Jim. Us atheists are pretty happy to drift along with the breeze and ignore it all but that does leave us in a peculiar position; nothing to fall back on when the **** hits the fan. We just have to blame ourselves and hope the human race can pull us all out of it all.
So, if you get a chance, Jim, can you put the religious stuff aside for a moment and see it all for what it is; humans arguing the point. It doesn't matter who's side you're on, it's a bloody stupid and dangerous thing to do.
And the Jew thing? If one feels the need to call themselves anything so they can feel like they belong is as big a mistake as calling oneself anything else. There will always be someone on the other team who wants to beat the **** out of you and vise versa. That's the way the game is played.

hate to say it but i'm with the upsidedown man on this.....

i liked the reference to my seminal piece of work "rules of the game" in there at the end ;)
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
hate to say it but i'm with the upsidedown man on this.....

i liked the reference to my seminal piece of work "rules of the game" in there at the end ;)

Its about time, Mark. I'm sick of standing on my head waiting for you to notice me. Ansd please stop spreading your seminal work all over the place. I slipped on some yesterday and nearly spilt my beer.
 

Mark Hampton

New member
Its about time, Mark. I'm sick of standing on my head waiting for you to notice me. Ansd please stop spreading your seminal work all over the place. I slipped on some yesterday and nearly spilt my beer.

sorry but the work is in scotland - must have been some one else doing the same work as me.....
 
I read the transcript. In summary: "We are the forces of civilization, they want to destroy us, a preemptive strike is on order".

Reminds me of the darkest pages of world history. Excuse me if I am not impressed.

Hi Jerome,

I'm afraid I have to agree with you. Although I also realise how difficult it is to understand for most people what it must be like to have one's existence, as individuals or as a people, being under constant threat, I also don't think of Mr. Netanyahu as a prime example of someone trying to defuse the situation.

Just take the Westbank settlement situation, strategically getting a better bargening situation with a 'fait accompli', against international law (or even logic), with the result of feeding the growing resentment amongst neigboring nations, and international scepticism about who is right and who is wrong. That damage is self inflicted, and a growing number of people I know are switching their original sympathy for Israel to sympathy for Palestinians.

From my perspective, I sadly see Israel on a course of self destruction with how they treat the situation. Again, hard for us to understand from a relatively comfortable distance, but objectively I do not see progress being made, on the contrary, and hardliners/hawks like Netanyahu are apparently not going to cause change for the better, so this man made disaster can only escalate ...

Cheers (anyway),
Bart
 

Jim Galli

Member
Secularization is nearly complete. I heard a man speaking who said in E. Germany in a certain sample not one person under the age of 28 could be found who believed in God. Any God.

Anachronisms like me, and like Asher, are fading away. It won't be long now. In either case, it won't be long now.

If, however, the biblical prophets that Netanyahu mentions are in fact correct (and they have been thousands of times to date with items that no mere human could have ever known when they were spoken) then you may find yourself in the midst of end time events when that powder keg goes off. The time of "jacob's trouble" so to speak.

What secularization has stolen from you is the fact that there are very real unseen forces in control of world epoch's and events. A very real Satan. A very real God. And they are minutes, or days away from doing battle over a strip of land called Israel, and a planet called earth.

Satan hates Jews precisely because they are God's 'chosen people'. The arab nations who want to anahilate Jews are merely dupes of a higher power.

So if I'm wrong, this post is just a momentary irritation by an irrational "wacky" person, but if I'm right, you may find yourself in the midst of all of the plagues of St. John's Apocalypse. The Revelation. Read it. Coming soon to a theatre you live in.
 

Jim Galli

Member
Then, I have nothing more to say.

Jerome, there have been thousands of books written trying to de-bunk / disprove the Holy Bible. All of them are gone. None of them has lasted. Most are not even remembered! Where are they?? Yet God's word is intact. I don't have time to waste on the latest "debunking proof". In 15 years it will also be forgotten ~ replaced. If we have 15 years that is . . .
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!

Horatio G Spafford, 1873

That's serious ****, Jim.
Good thing I'm not a sinner. That sounds like it might be a bit uncomfortable.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!

Horatio G Spafford, 1873


Serendipity Jim!

I found one 2 inch steel nail tonight that I was compelled to carry into my house. I decided that somehow it was important. It's in my right hand now as I type! Strange coincidence? Now why on earth should that be in my hand? That had me flummoxed!

So it quite threw me to see your fresh post about a crucifixion and I thought, 3 nails for a crucifix, 1 nail only in my hand. 3 parts to a trinity, one for God of Israel, (or Allah), for Islam. That may be the message I'm getting.

Anyway, I still have this nail safely in my right hand and my hear wife has screwed up the remote control for the TV again. Maybe that's what I need this one 2" nail!

Asher
 
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I can’t say I’ve ever encountered anyone disproving The Hunting of the Snark either. It’s not possible to prove or disprove anything that doesn’t necessarily have a rational basis.

We may well be heading towards a catastrophe but it’s not directly to do with religion. It’s the impending ecological crisis caused by the greed and mindlessness that allows us to dissipate the resources we need to survive.

I think that monotheistic religions are complicit in this, though. Doctrines that posit that humanity is superior to all other life forms can easily lead to disregard for other life forms and the Environment in general.

--- Whoops, this is out of context with more recent posts; I was responding to the last post on the first page. ---
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
IDoctrines that posit that humanity is superior to all other life forms can easily lead to disregard for other life forms and the Environment in general.

Murray,

You've touched on an important subject that many of us miss. It's a general need for more humility. The wonder is that life exists at all and that just minor differences in the sequence of a few base pairs in our DNA can change an eye color or our reaction to height or sound. Many of these act to give us distinction from one another. More of these make us different species altogether! But despite these differences we're all life, one life. There's no life form, however humble, with which we do not share commonalities and common origin, no matter what else you might or might not believe in. The rest is conceit.


Asher
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
For some reason, this great joke, from comedian Emo Phillips, comes to mind:

******

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"

He said, "Nobody loves me."

I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes."

I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"

He said, "A Christian."

I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"

He said, "Protestant."

I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"

He said, "Baptist."

I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Baptist."

I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."

I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative
Baptist Eastern Region?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."

I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."

I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

*******

Do note that some Episcopalians still argue over whether the priest, when preparing Holy Communion, should face the wall behind the altar or the congregation. [And I remind them that the decision affects on which side of the chancel the American and Episcopal flags should properly be!]

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Jim,

My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!

Horatio G Spafford, 1873

I myself might think about the whole work:

When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
When sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, Thou has taught me to say,
It is well, it is well, with my soul.

It is well, with my soul,
It is well, with my soul,
It is well, it is well, with my soul.

Though Satan should buffet, though trials should come,
Let this blest assurance control,
That Christ has regarded my helpless estate,
And hath shed His own blood for my soul.
(refrain)

My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
(refrain)

And Lord, haste the day when my faith shall be sight,
The clouds be rolled back as a scroll;
The trump shall resound, and the Lord shall descend,
Even so, it is well with my soul.

It is well, with my soul,
It is well, with my soul,
It is well, it is well, with my soul.

But then, I'm an Episcopalian, and we are not obsessed with sin.

http://breadsite.org/midi/it_is_well_with_my_soul-3.mid

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Since we seem to have drifted into hymnody, and perhaps especially since current events bring about an interest in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I thought I would provide what I think are some really positive words:

Come, come, ye saints, no toil nor labor fear;
But with joy wend your way.
Though hard to you this journey may appear,
Grace shall be as your day.
Tis better far for us to strive
Our useless cares from us to drive;
Do this, and joy your hearts will swell -
All is well! All is well!

Why should we mourn or think our lot is hard?
'Tis not so; all is right.
Why should we think to earn a great reward
If we now shun the fight?
Gird up your loins; fresh courage take.
Our God will never us forsake;
And soon we'll have this tale to tell-
All is well! All is well!

We'll find the place which God for us prepared,
Far away, in the West,
Where none shall come to hurt or make afraid;
There the saints, will be blessed.
We'll make the air, with music ring,
Shout praises to our God and King;
Above the rest these words we'll tell -
All is well! All is well!

And should we die before our journey's through,
Happy day! All is well!
We then are free from toil and sorrow, too;
With the just we shall dwell!
But if our lives are spared again
To see the Saints their rest obtain,
Oh, how we'll make this chorus swell-
All is well! All is well!

Alternate Third Stanza

We'll find the place which God for us prepared,
In His house full of light,
Where none shall come to hurt or make afraid;
There the saints will shine bright.
We'll make the air with music ring,
Shout praises to our God and King;
Above the rest these words we’ll tell,
All is well! All is well!​

–William Clayton, 1846​

http://www.hymntime.com/tch/mid/c/o/m/e/come_come_ye_saints.mid

[I need to rework the tempo there a little.]

All is indeed well.

And for those who enjoy thoughts of sin, there is plenty to go around.

Best regards,

Doug
 
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