Critique Desired: Blue Mosque Istanbul

[Cem_Usakligil]

This I took in the Blue Mosque, Istanbul. I have placed the camera on its back on the ground and took a few trial shots first in order to compose it correctly. The end result is uncropped.
5DII and 17-40L. 3 exposures blended using Enfuse. C&C welcome.



Cheers,

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil

This I took in the Blue Mosque, Istanbul. I have placed the camera on its back on the ground and took a few trial shots first in order to compose it correctly. The end result is uncropped.

Hi Cem,

As usual, often anyways, your composition skills are great. By choosing a de-centered 'crop' from the full dome, you've captured your very own version of the sight that many have viewed before, some in person (I personally haven't been that lucky yet). This also is a fine example of how one can claim a copyright (of an intellectual property) from a scene that's available to many and has been photographed by almost as many as well! It is your creativity that chose this particular view, and as such can be considered 'original'.

5DII and 17-40L. 3 exposures blended using Enfuse. C&C welcome.

While the 17-40mm isn't the absolute best performer in the ultra-wide arena (my personal copy certainly wasn't), it did allow to capture a large part of the full extent of the overwhelming dome. Stopping down a lot will help to get decent corner performance. The Enfuse type of blending, IMHO, still offers one of the more natural looking ways of covering huge dynamic ranges, and it shows. It is not really noticable that the scene dynamic range was as huge as it actually was, it looks quite natural, similar to how the human visual system (HVS) would interpret the luminosity differences. I think it's okay to clip the lightsources in view themselves a bit (as you did), since it leaves more dynamic range for the other things that really matter.

As a suggestion, you might also want to experiment with a large (60 or so) radius, low amount (10% or so), type of overall adaptive unsharp mask based contrast adjustment (before downsampling to 'web' size). I think it will beef up the overall impression, unless you prefer the more 'ton-sur-ton' look it has now.

Thanks for sharing,
Bart

[Asher Kelman]

This is an exceptional image as Bart so aptly pointed out. you have, my good friend, Cem, written a new magic with the 5DII. It's a remarkable tool and you have captured something that most folk have never imagined. In fact, it's hard to conceptualize this beauty without a photograph. The overwhelming presence of cold stone and the massive distances and slowly moving masses of tourists and worshipers are many miles below this immense beauty of stone craftsmanship, amongst the finest ever seen.

Thanks so much,

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

[QUOTE=Bart_van_der_Wolf;75108]..........

As a suggestion, you might also want to experiment with a large (60 or so) radius, low amount (10% or so), type of overall adaptive unsharp mask based contrast adjustment (before downsampling to 'web' size). I think it will beef up the overall impression, unless you prefer the more 'ton-sur-ton' look it has now.
/QUOTE]

Bart,

Tell me what you mean by the "ton-sur-ton" look? Just closely related tones?

Asher

[Nicolas Claris]

Beautifull and very interesting, I won't copy Bart's and Asher's comments, because I just agree…

I know I'll seem to be stubborn (an habit!) be I'd like to see more in depth details… I'd like to see more of that guy well placed in the center of the bottom line of the image… What a scale!

We do need a zoomify (for now a link to an external page would still be fine) for that simple and beautifull reason…

[Nicolas Claris]

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

Tell me what you mean by the "ton-sur-ton" look? Just closely related tones?

Yes,
ton sur ton = tone on tone
Within the same color palette

[Cem_Usakligil]

Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf

...As usual, often anyways, your composition skills are great. By choosing a de-centered 'crop' from the full dome, you've captured your very own version of the sight that many have viewed before, some in person (I personally haven't been that lucky yet). This also is a fine example of how one can claim a copyright (of an intellectual property) from a scene that's available to many and has been photographed by almost as many as well! It is your creativity that chose this particular view, and as such can be considered 'original'...

Hi Bart,

I am not entirely sure I deserve this compliment, it is way too kind of you. The composition was intentional as I mentioned of course to my liking. It is good to hear that it comes over as such. I remember that you have made similar pictures in the Netherlands yourself in a smaller replica church of St. Peter in Rome. Please feel free to share them here if you want to :-).

Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf

..While the 17-40mm isn't the absolute best performer in the ultra-wide arena (my personal copy certainly wasn't), it did allow to capture a large part of the full extent of the overwhelming dome. Stopping down a lot will help to get decent corner performance. The Enfuse type of blending, IMHO, still offers one of the more natural looking ways of covering huge dynamic ranges, and it shows. It is not really noticable that the scene dynamic range was as huge as it actually was, it looks quite natural, similar to how the human visual system (HVS) would interpret the luminosity differences. I think it's okay to clip the lightsources in view themselves a bit (as you did), since it leaves more dynamic range for the other things that really matter.

As a suggestion, you might also want to experiment with a large (60 or so) radius, low amount (10% or so), type of overall adaptive unsharp mask based contrast adjustment (before downsampling to 'web' size). I think it will beef up the overall impression, unless you prefer the more 'ton-sur-ton' look it has now.

I agree. I am also struggling with the ton-sur-ton look and I wonder whether I should forget about blending exposures and work on a single frame or not. I might give it a go later and repost.

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

This is an exceptional image as Bart so aptly pointed out. you have, my good friend, Cem, written a new magic with the 5DII. It's a remarkable tool and you have captured something that most folk have never imagined. In fact, it's hard to conceptualize this beauty without a photograph. The overwhelming presence of cold stone and the massive distances and slowly moving masses of tourists and worshipers are many miles below this immense beauty of stone craftsmanship, amongst the finest ever seen.

Thanks so much,

Asher

Asher thanks a lot for the kindest remarks but as I wrote to Bart above I do not feel I really deserve them. I am going to show some more pictures taken in this one of the most magnificent mosques in the world. It is truly amazing to sit there and take it all in. But I should say that the overwhelming number of tourists present (myself included) is becoming an issue the way I see it. It is not really a tranquil environment any longer.

Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris

Beautifull and very interesting, I won't copy Bart's and Asher's comments, because I just agree…

I know I'll seem to be stubborn (an habit!) be I'd like to see more in depth details… I'd like to see more of that guy well placed in the center of the bottom line of the image… What a scale!

We do need a zoomify (for now a link to an external page would still be fine) for that simple and beautifull reason…

Hi Nicolas,

I'll post details and crops later, I promise. Even a zoomify ;-). But which guy are you talking about? There are no people in this picture. Maybe you thought that the joint of the huge chandelier is a person's profile?

Cheers,

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Asher Kelman

Tell me what you mean by the "ton-sur-ton" look? Just closely related tones?

Yes, an overall dominant set of very similar tones, which determines the atmosphere, and some subtle other color accents to make it more interesting to keep absorbing what's offered to see. It's a term from the French language (des couleurs ton sur ton) that's also commonly used in the Dutch language. A Google search results in many references ranging from home interior design, to manufacturers of paint, to the cosmetic industry.

Bart

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil

I remember that you have made similar pictures in the Netherlands yourself in a smaller replica church of St. Peter in Rome. Please feel free to share them here if you want to :-).

Okay, here it is:


Way less impressive than the Blue Mosque, but I also chose a (very) slightly off-center composition to avoid too much symmetry, and thus guide the eye to move around from left to right. I also liked to include the cool blue tones to the predominantly warm tones of the poorly lit dome.

I used TuFuse Pro to fuse 6 different exposures, and did some large radius USM to add some depth.

Bart

[Nathaniel Alpert]

Hi Bart,

I am really enjoying this. It suggests a whole new world of possiblities.

Would you provide a few technical details about how you made the enfuse combo. For example, what custom functions did you use on the camera to get the multiple exposures in registration? Does mirror lockup work with autoexposure bracket? Did you use the image alignment feature in enfuse? How did you set the blend parameters in enfuse?

Thanks,

-Nat

[fahim mohammed]

Cem, I am amazed at what panos can do...still haven't tried it. Lovely.

[Cem_Usakligil]

Originally Posted by fahim mohammed

Cem, I am amazed at what panos can do...still haven't tried it. Lovely.

Hi Fahim,

Thanks for the kind comment. This is NOT a pano, it is a single full-frame (35mm) picture taken using a ultra wide lens at 17mm. I took three exposure brackets for blending, that's all.

Cheers,

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel Alpert

Hi Bart,

I am really enjoying this. It suggests a whole new world of possiblities.

Would you provide a few technical details about how you made the enfuse combo. For example, what custom functions did you use on the camera to get the multiple exposures in registration? Does mirror lockup work with autoexposure bracket? Did you use the image alignment feature in enfuse? How did you set the blend parameters in enfuse?

Hi Nat,

I used a 1Ds Mark II at the time I shot this image. That camera allows to shoot up to 7 bracketed shots (user selectable). I chose to use an exposure interval of 1 1/3rd stops between the exposures, with a fixed aperture (always use a fixed aperture for exposure or focus stacking). I had it set for mirror lockup between the exposures (some 4 seconds interval to dampen vibration).
A camera like my 1Ds Mark III allows to do a mirror lockup, and the leave the mirror up so the subsequent exposures only operate the shutter, which reduces the chance of single pixel mis-alignment due to camera shake even further, and less time is required for a bracketing set.

The exposures were made on a tripod, but even then it can happen that the registration beween the bracketed shots shifts 1 pixel. When the images are perfectly in register (one can check e.g. by stacking them in layers in Photo shop and nudge them into best alignment, then save again as separate files), then the files can be fed to the fusion engine of choice. Alternatively one can align them and create an HDR, e.g. with Photomatix, and then either produce a tonemapped LDR version for output, or use the HDR file as a master for multiple renderings which only differ by the range of tonality one wishes to use for "Fusion" or exposure blending (each rendering uses a differnt exposure level from the HDR, some clipped at the shadows others clipped at the highlights, or clipped at both ends).

I like to use the TuFuse Pro application (Windows only) for exposure fusion, because it offers so much control over the final result (with previews). There are many parameters available that are not available (or implemented differently) in the Enfuse/tufuse command line applications. So I cannot give you direct parameters that would translate to these other programs. TF Pro is a WYSIWYG application (although not color managed), so you can get a pretty good impression about the tonality as long as you use something like AdobeRGB or sRGB on most Gamma 2.2 displays. The colors are more difficult to judge, but TF Pro doesn't calculate based on color, but on brightness, so you'll get a color mix from the input images (which can help if you e.g. use a different White balance, e.g. Warmer, less Blue, for your shadow image to be fused).

Exposure fusion offers many creative options, but its main strength is a natural looking exposure blending of different brightnesses from a high dynamic range scene. The only drawback is that the input images need to be aligned before fusion. One may need to do that with another application first before feeding the aligned results to TF Pro.

Bart

[Nicolas Claris]

Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil

But which guy are you talking about? There are no people in this picture. Maybe you thought that the joint of the huge chandelier is a person's profile?

Cheers,

Him!

LoL you are surely right, I though it was a man looking down at you!

[fahim mohammed]

Cem, old age is creeping up on me fast! I was looking at your pano of Istanbul and wanted to comment
on that one instead got to the Blue Mosque. Lovely it is either way. You are correct..Bruce it is.

Originally Posted by Cem_Usakligil

Hi Fahim,

Thanks for the kind comment. This is NOT a pano, it is a single full-frame (35mm) picture taken using a ultra wide lens at 17mm. I took three exposure brackets for blending, that's all.

Cheers,

[Cem_Usakligil]

Bart and I have paid a brief visit to this Basilica of SS/ Agatha and Barbara in Oudenbosch, Netherlands. According to their web site, the basilica built by P. J. H. Cuypers between 1865 and 1880 based on the St Peter's in Rome as a model (only smaller of course). The dome of this reduced and simplified copy of the original has a diameter of 68m/223ft. The west front, which dates from the end of the 19th century, is also based on a famous model, the church of St John Lateran in Rome. Some of the interior decoration was the work of the Antwerp sculptor F. de Vriendt.

Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf

Okay, here it is:


Way less impressive than the Blue Mosque, but I also chose a (very) slightly off-center composition to avoid too much symmetry, and thus guide the eye to move around from left to right. I also liked to include the cool blue tones to the predominantly warm tones of the poorly lit dome.

I used TuFuse Pro to fuse 6 different exposures, and did some large radius USM to add some depth.

Bart

Similar to the above shot of the dome by Bart, I have set out to photograph the dome albeit wider as in my Blue Mosque picture. This time, I have used a proper tripod as well. The image shown below is a result of exposure blending as described by Bart earlier in this thread, consisting of 8 images (a uniform distance of 1EV between the brackets). I have converted the raw files into tif ones in DxO, using the lens correction module (since the 17-40 shows some aberrations towards the edges). After that, I have done exposure blending in Photomatix. And finally, back to ps to do local contrast enhancement, downsizing and output sharpening.

Basilica of SS. Agatha and Barbara

Perhaps it is interesting to compare it to the Blue Mosque picture:

Blue Mosque

Cheers,

[Asher Kelman]

Cem,

Magnificent work! Overwhelming beauty and workmanship by the architect, workers and you too!

Asher

[Nicolas Claris]

Magnifique !

[Cem_Usakligil]

Thanks Asher, Nicolas,

Don't you think that the structural similarities between the mosque and the church are quite striking?

Cheers

[Asher Kelman]

Of course, the architects came from the same schools. Armenian Christian Architects were trained in the Eastern tradition and fused Armenian Orthodox ideas with those of the Ottomon Turks. So there are even some important mosques designed by Christian architects.

Asher

[Steve Robinson]

I stand in (actually I'm sitting down 8~)) awe looking at these fabulous images. This kind of technique is why I like OPF so much.

[Cem_Usakligil]

Originally Posted by Steve Robinson

I stand in (actually I'm sitting down 8~)) awe looking at these fabulous images. This kind of technique is why I like OPF so much.

Thanks Steve :-)

Cheers,