Election 2012

[Jim Galli]

Election 2012

I believe, deeply, and sadly, that the defining moment for our nation took place on a stage in Charlotte NC on September 5th when Antonio Villaraigosa called for a voice vote concerning Gov. Strickland's amendment to re-insert language about "God" in the platform.

3 times the vote was indecisive with loud 'booing' from the ranks and when Villaraigosa ultimately was forced to make a call and put God in the platform, the shouts of hatred are unforgetable.

How did we get here? How does a nation's wickedness grow incrementally until it is finally so secular that the very idea that there is a God who holds any authority over humans gets shouted off the stage.

Obviously, I'm not in a position to write a complete thesis, but you can quickly note some benchmarks on this slide downhill, or, if you hate God, this long uphill climb.

School prayer dis-allowed. Sexual revolution of the 1960's. Roe V. Wade; human slaughter instituted, 1973. Disolution of families and moral values. Gay rights. Creeping secularism, and by that I mean the sheer numbers of young people growing up in a society so secular that any notion of a creator God who judges fallen humans is just ignored as bizarre.

You will note that I am writing this on the morning of November 6, election day, with no way of knowing what the outcome will be.

It really doesn't matter at this point. A nation that collectively hates God and boo's at the mere mention of Him, will be judged. The only question remaining is; when?

Look around you! We're already IN jugdement, but just the eerie sprinklings before the tidal wave comes.

 

[Jerome Marot]

the very idea that there is a God who holds any authority over humans gets shouted off the stage.

A quick search shows that the stage opposed the idea to add a mention of God and declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel in the platform. You are telling us only half of the story.

Besides, not wanting a mention of God in a political platform is not the same of not believing in God. Some people may simply be in favor of a strict separation of church and State.

 

[nicolas claris]

Some people may simply be in favor of a strict separation of church and State.

Yes!
and BTW, not forgetting…

 

[Jim Galli]

Yes!
and BTW, not forgetting…

So you God haters can say anything you like but if I mention God; that HE IS; that HE judges; that's an offense. Not to worry, I've asked to be removed. Waiting on Asher. I will shake the dust from my feet when I'm ushered out.

 

[nicolas claris]

Hey Jim! cool down! : )
We can have different opinions and live on the same planet! as soon as no one (not you, not me) tries to force others to share our beliefs.
And believe me (pun intended; ) you're far much better with your beautiful photography (even if you shoot film and I do digital ; ). I do not care from who or what you get your inspiration! I just enjoy looking at your images…
Peace?

 

[Asher Kelman]

3 times the vote was indecisive with loud 'booing' from the ranks and when Villaraigosa ultimately was forced to make a call and put God in the platform, the shouts of hatred are unforgetable.

Jim,

I'm replying, not as an advocate for or against religion but for choice and trusting people to arrive at the best decision for themselves, without state coercion. I'm replying to address your good intentions. However, we cannot advocate, just celebrate or complain about society and ourselves, what we actually do to each other, how we set the stage for each others lives, fairly and unfairly.

These fellows that make party platforms are not scholars, LOL! They are not authorities on history, anthropology, religion on rational thought or accountability. They are merely politicians, (hardly moral leaders), worrying about losing even a few percent of support from atheists or religious folk who want Separation of Church and State, as Jerome, (from thousands of miles away, LOL), aptly reminds us! Remarkably the truth of the matter is that the vast majority of Americans believe in God. However that is best celebrated and affirmed in the community and the home.

For the rest of the people here, the ideas of the bible are the scaffolding for civil society, centered around, "Love your neighbor as yourself!" The society has measures to at least help feed the poor and educate all children. Churches are, BTW, freed of paying taxes to help maintain these centers of value, where they are wanted and needed by the population.

Most folk are not "Gay", but a minor percent. We are just not so insulting, anymore, to people who are, by genetic makeup or epigenetic changes, (of no cause other than chance), attracted to people of the same sex. In a practical matter, even if one thinks such behavior is "morally" wrong, the behavior doesn't alter, (in any significant measure), the lives of the rest of us. What would we do, put them in jail? That itself would be cruel and also very expensive. So our society has adopted the practical path of letting gays have their own communities and that's that. Even if one had a magic tablet to correct their behaviors, they'd refuse being cured as they do not feel they are in anyway ill! So in the end, we can follow the path of focusing our energy on our own families and tolerate others doing what they wish in this respect. As another practical outcome, our lives are enriched by the creative capabilities that appear to accompany the genetics of built in gay members in our societies. Could be that especially talented creators where left out of war parties so they were selected. Not enough young men returned so grandfathers and those left behind had to make up for the shortfall to have more children and survive.

Back to the vast majority of the American population, they believe in God and the existence of the Devil and many doubt science. What you see are the noisier parts of society. We are not having any mass movement towards murder, mayhem and marital disruption, but rather making serious attempts to understand human behavior and try to deal with issues and have opportunity, hope and self-respect.

I want to see the good in people. So my attitude is positive and appreciative.

There's a lot to fix, for sure!

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

So Jim,

Wouldn't you rather have the perfect religion flourish by virtue of it's validity rather than the power of the State? Surely it has to compete in the market of ideas and not be elevated above other ideas by legislation.

Villagrosa, BTW,who tried to put the words in the party platform, was kicked out of Catholic School for fighting, couldn't pass the bar exam in 4 efforts and is certainly not the best moral representative of the community. Socially he's warm and gregarious. Still, he's just a figurehead for the many folk who are overjoyed to have, at last, a Latino in high office as Mayor of Los Angeles.

On the whole, the American people are moral, kind, generous and worthy of high esteem. All people have beliefs. Some children discard them and others pick them up. That's part of freedom of choice.

Politicians? Polite chiens!

All your words are here forever. People will read them. Some will discard them others might treasure them At least you have spoken and everything is here and referenced by search engines and is right now propagating. These same words are not, to the best of my knowledge, in any other photography forum. I respect your right to follow your own beliefs. That, I've shown.

Who would expect not to have doubters or hostility, knowing our modern societies? I ask you to balance our own hospitality, (just the good parts), with a few of your remarkable pictures. We do not need to squabble.

Let's look at what's good here! You have art to share. That's how you have more standing. I, on my part, will try to make more enjoyable pictures worthy of folk's interest. I'll try not to be superficial, that's all I can promise!

So you God haters can say anything you like but if I mention God; that HE IS; that HE judges; that's an offense. Not to worry, I've asked to be removed. Waiting on Asher. I will shake the dust from my feet when I'm ushered out.

Jim,

Folk cannot advocate against religion here as well. Either way, it detracts from respecting individuals private life and dignity. We have in the past allowed totally free discussion, something no other forum tolerates, but we ended up with insults and that we cannot allow, either way. We want you as a friend and photographer!

Let things cool down. Post some photography. That would be a great act of kindness. That is something you can do that is really worthy.

Asher

 

[Robert Watcher]

Yes!
and BTW, not forgetting…

Exactly. I have very strong religious convictions - and my personal views belong nowhere on a photography forum. There is good reason that in the 2 previous professional photography forums that I owned and ran during the past 10 years - that religion and politics were not things that could be discussed on the forum. We were about photography.

I think as noble as Asher's intentions have been to allow liberal, intellectual and open discussion of all subjects here on the OPF forum - it appears to me that he has been forced to recognize in the last week why there have to be restrictions and focus. Not only were anger and even hatred being aggravated - - - but many including myself were forced into viewing such content, as that is all that was going on with the forum. Publishing and discussing of "photography" was being sidelined. I - as I'm sure was the case with others - were all but ready to just pass on frequenting this OPF website - - - and maybe even moreso, being associated with it by posting.

But - hey - - - those are just my own thoughts (which are not open to discussion or rebuttal)

EDIT : reading some of Asher's reply above - after I posted this - I see that he has covered much of what I have stated. Sorry for any duplication.


Rob

 

[Asher Kelman]

Exactly. Extremists who seek to insult and fight are destructive here, like like pissing in the swimming pool or trying to sell land in Florida at a private party! So as of now, (while no already published opinion is deleted), discussion of religion that sniffs of advocacy one way or another will not be tolerated! Please help me, don't inflame! It sucks up all the air in the place and drives folk away! Also, alert moderators, so we don't allow this to occur again.

Instead, we'll protect what's unique here:

• understanding and directing honest feedback based on the path chosen by the photographer,
  
• promoting fascinating pictures to engage, entertain and encourage us
  
• ensuring a comfortable and nurturing home for our musing and sharing photography, ideas, techniques and advances.
  
• holding a lantern to the amazing diversity of nature, people and life!

That's where our heart is and that's where we need your support.



Asher

 

[Robert Watcher]

Exactly. It's something like coming to a party and then either pissing in the swimming pool or trying to sell guests insurance policies or land in Florida. We all want to protect what's unique there, basing feedback on the path chosen by the photographer, and just promote fascinating pictures to engage, entertain and encourage us. That's where our heart is and I promise to be more awake at the helm, as i've said elsewhere!

So as of now, (while no already published opinion is deleted), discussion of religion that sniffs of advocacy one way or another will not be tolerated. Please help me so we don't allow this to occur again by sending me a note.

Thanks for your support,

Asher

I apologize Asher - - - it appears that you may have misunderstood the intent of my post - which was in support of your choices and logic that was provided in the link that Nicolas provided. I am a kind hearted and giving person and have no intention of criticizing or degrading anyone. If you feel I am coming in after the fact when I shouldn't be, I am more than welcome to delete the content of my reply.


Rob

 

[Asher Kelman]

Robert,

I understand and value so much your comments and needed support. I'm just slow at cracking the whip, LOL!

I have a lot of pictures to go through so back to photography!!

Asher

 

[fahim mohammed]

So you God haters can say anything you like but if I mention God; that HE IS; that HE judges; that's an offense. Not to worry, I've asked to be removed. Waiting on Asher. I will shake the dust from my feet when I'm ushered out.

Hey there Jim. Don't include me in this company you refer to, please.
Anything but that; no way man!!

Kindest regards.

p.s there is this guy here..can you convince him to ' shake the dust ' along with you. Please.

 

[Tom dinning]

If I walked into a pub here and heard someone ranting and raving like our beloved Jim is currently doing, I would turn around and walk right out. I also have a feeling I'd have a crowd following me to the next pub. He'd soon get sick of talking to himself. Or would he.
There's enough hate in this bloke to start a war or two.
My suggestion to you all is to leave him to his irrational behaviour or ban him. This place is seriously not for the likes of him.
I'll return when he's gone.

 

[Asher Kelman]

If I walked into a pub here and heard someone ranting and raving like our beloved Jim is currently doing, I would turn around and walk right out. I also have a feeling I'd have a crowd following me to the next pub. He'd soon get sick of talking to himself. Or would he.
There's enough hate in this bloke to start a war or two.
My suggestion to you all is to leave him to his irrational behaviour or ban him. This place is seriously not for the likes of him.
I'll return when he's gone.

I've inactivated Jim's membership, so please do not post anything more referencing him as he cannot respond.

Asher

 

[Tom dinning]

I've inactivated Jim's membership, so please do not post anything more referencing him as he cannot respond.

Asher

Bless your sensible heart, Asher.
I might even post a photo in your honour.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks for the lively discussion. This thread is now closed!