Got my Graflex

[Klaus Esser]

"On the other side, I shot a simple table top at my studio with the P 25 and the 6x9 mini view camera, and looking with a loupe directly at the negative and comparing with the image on C1, I can see that the digital file has much more information. I want to see the "look" of the c-prints out of the 6x9 and maybe 4x5 or 8x10 but I could eventually shoot with the digital back. "

Don´t forget the lens! I guess the lens with the P25 is some other generation - but the main point is the scanning. An exellent lens and a drumscan i bet the 6x9 has at least the same information.
But digital looks cleaner, no question, because of noise-suppression.
Take the same lens to shoot, have the 6x9/50ASA drum-scanned and make an A1 print . . . - and then we´ll talk again about information . .

You are comparing average analogue technology from the 1950s with actual digital highend technology of 2007 - and say: "I can see that the digital file has much more information" . . that´s not really surprising, i would say

best, Klaus

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Klaus, I'm doing things and reporting exactly what I see, I have read a lot in forums about this but it was time for some experimentation. I will take some more negatives and go to the lab to make some enlargements to see how this looks. As I said before, the good thing is that as photographers we benefit if there is new and improved technology that we can use.

I was reading about what the german photographer Gursky does. There is no direct info. about it, but apparently he shoots 6x7 C-negs and then scans and digitally intervenes the image before printing large.

take care

 

[Klaus Esser]

Klaus, I'm doing things and reporting exactly what I see, I have read a lot in forums about this but it was time for some experimentation. I will take some more negatives and go to the lab to make some enlargements to see how this looks. As I said before, the good thing is that as photographers we benefit if there is new and improved technology that we can use.

I was reading about what the german photographer Gursky does. There is no direct info. about it, but apparently he shoots 6x7 C-negs and then scans and digitally intervenes the image before printing large.

take care

The pieces i know from him, Andreas used 8x10". That´s what i said: the "real thing" you do shooting analogue and scan it at high - REAL high - resolutions. What you get out of it exceeds - in my and some other photographer´s eyes - every current digital camera.
Not to forget - when we talk of grain - the use of noise-damping on analogues as well as on digitals.

What surprises me - i haven´t been there for a time - that you say, NY is short of analogue delivery.
Some top photographers are living and working in NY and from some of them i know they´re working analogue.

best, Klaus

 

[Asher Kelman]

Not that it's large format, Klaus and Leonardo, but a very high end wedding photographer in San Francisco uses 2 shooters each with 3 cameras. A total of 5 1D Mark IV and 1 20D!

I asked him about grey cards. He said, I use XYZ lab in Los angeles, they know my color wishes!

Asher

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Asher, aren't you out of topic? we will move your post to the appropriated place. LOL

As a matter of fact, why don't everyone come hand out in this thread.

From now on this is not about my new Baby Century Graflex but for one or any of the bellow topics.

** Is digital REALY better than film (my good friend Klaus thinks not)
** Is Vista the end of Windowz monopoly?
** How many cameras is too much to take to a wedding
** Photographers too obsessed with equipment should become camera traders. (my own father said that of me)
** Equipment does't really matter to make good photography.

etc

 

[Klaus Esser]

"I digital REALY better than film (my good friend Klaus thinks not)"

i forgive you . . . !

"Is Vista the end of Windowz monopoly?"

i hope so!

"How many cameras is too much to take to a wedding"

One.

"Photographers too obsessed with equipment should become camera traders. (my own father said that of me"

Right!

"Equipment does't really matter to make good photography."

It doesn´t matter at all. As long as a good lens is in it . . .

best, Klaus

http://www.gosee.de/tmp/index1178825802XY18409.html

 

[Asher Kelman]

I'm glad you have a good sense of humor.

My off topic diversion referred to

Not to forget - when we talk of grain - the use of noise-damping on analogues as well as on digitals.

What surprises me - i haven´t been there for a time - that you say, NY is short of analogue delivery.

and

The said that "we stopped developing film", and at the same time a young male, on my left, was picking up prints he sent via the Internet. They did have film to sell, but when I asked for "C-print 120", the first guy in the film counter had no idea what I was talking about, so he sent me to "the guru" in film, I said: 120/ASA 100/ c-print, what do you recommend. The guru answered: -- "there is only one" and gave me the 5 rolls of FUJIFILM REALA.

I'm pointing out that working pros using film over digital still thrive here on the West Coast of the USA!

For myself, I'm using a Crown Graphic 4x5 and will be getting an 8x10. I hope to shoot 8x10 this weekend. My interest is now comparing my time investment between using a 4x5 film, scanning and getting rid of any dust spots versus stitching pictures from my 5D or 1DII.

Asher

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Asher Kelman : " I'm glad you have a good sense of humor. "

-- and I'm glad that it is appreciated here.

Every subject demands a different approach, for example: if you shoot food you better have a high resolution system because we humans are used to sit and look at food from a close up perspective before eating it. I think that images of moving people could be much less defined, granny, de-saturated etc

For some photographers to capture the moment no matter what is important, that may be the idea of the wedding guy that has so many angles covered. It may be a good sales point.

Im sure that there are many good photographers shooting film, but the feel here is as if the war was already fought, film lost, and now it is just going on with the force of inertia. There is going to be -- if not here yet -- a big denial and nostalgic feeling for the good old friend Mr. Film, but look what happened to daguerreotypes. Who is doing daguerreotypes now a days?

 

[Asher Kelman]

Asher Kelman : " I'm glad you have a good sense of humor. "

-- and I'm glad that it is appreciated here.

.........Im sure that there are many good photographers shooting film, but the feel here is as if the war was already fought, film lost, and now it is just going on with the force of inertia. There is going to be -- if not here yet -- a big denial and nostalgic feeling for the good old friend Mr. Film, but look what happened to daguerreotypes. Who is doing daguerreotypes now a days?

Well people are still making daguerrotypes, but you have be sedated, as it is a long journey back in time. I was planning to get to a workshop.

I do intend to make myself a huge store of Polaorid film before that vanishes.

Asher

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

I wonder if you don't mind if I use this as a mini blog on the use of the Baby Century Graflex (what a grand name for it).

I went back yesterday -- I promised my wife to be back a 1pm to have lunch and I did --- and today. For the ones toning in the blog, I'm taking photographs of ships out of Snug Harbor in Staten Island with a 6x9 mini view camera that came out of eBay with a 100mm Schnaider etc etc.

My friend, -- sorry, my good friend -- Will will send me a focusing glass and 6x9 film holder. Whe n I got the camera the holder was a 6x6 and strangely had a outer shell of a 6x9. But the winding mechanism is set for the smaller format. At first I did't see who to shoot at all, but after I invented the solution. Simply I got a dated roll of 120 ($2, this is NY, nothing free) and use it to mark the exposures on the emulsion side with a sharpy, so I calculated that I need to turn the knowb 10 times until the first exposure and two complete times after. It works fine.

Then there was no focusing plate other than a fabricated by the earlier owner out of a cut sheet holder. This is working fine, but I suspect that is not aligned with the focus, so the parts that Will is sending will come in time for improving the performance of the camera.

I'm really liking this machine. It is very well built, fast to open and set up (for a view camera) and the 6x9 is a good pice of negative for such a small camera.

The other thing that I like is the reaction of people on the deck of the Staten Island ferry when I get the camera out among all the digital competition...

The shooting is good so far, but the problem that I have is that too few ships come at the place where I have set up my observatory and may have to research for other locations. Then I have some film but have to go to the printing stage of the project to see how much resolution the lens produces with conventional C-negative.

Today I photographed what appeared to be an oil tanker with black hull. I can see the crew on deck in the negative with my loupe, so I guess it will be more or less sharp and detailed image.

It would be interesting to shoot with the digital back and the 100mm lens to see how much resolution it has... for looking at the focusing glass it seams to be a respectable little lens. I also wonder how does it shot on 4x5...

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

I don't know if this has any readership at all, -- if it did I could sell it to Amazon --

Todays report is that I spent the entire morning with the Baby Century, shot 3 rolls of Reala 100 ISO and saw a gorgeous container ship pass by at about 1:25pm. I will get the film tomorrow to see if I got the big one in focus and framed etc. Remember that this is view camera photography of moving vehicles (the biggest on earth) and focus has to be adjusted calculating the trajectory of the ship in relation to the camera -- that is on a tripod --. Framing is the easy part because they come in and out in a "choreographed" way, and I have the "thing" that all Graplex to frame the subject. Well, I never believed I was going to actually use it one day.

ok, probably the next installment will be the printing part and how good/bad the Schneider lens really is.

The good thing is that I can always go back to that spot with other equipment until I get a result that satisfy me. Who know, may be even the digital back..

 

[Deleted member 55]

It is on it's way!

Hey Leonardo, The 2x3 focusing plate, roll film inserts, and the 4x5 Speed Graphic should arrive this tuesday on Your doorstep via UPS.

Have fun with them!

Post more outstanding photos!

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Will, thank you for the supplies, they will be useful here in the trenches

I spent almost all Friday at the My Own Color Lab -- the photo is of one of tree images that I printed 20 x24, I want to take good digital photos of the prints later with the P 24-- and it was a good experience. The stuff of the lab where very helpful to help me get the filters going and I waked out with about 10 more or less final images 20 by 24 for $30.72 including a sneaker chocolate bar and compressed Air can. That is after the rebate for first time user of $24 that was really handy to compensate on not knowing the way around the lab.

The 6x9 negatives are holding their ground, there is a lot of detail and things look sharp and distortion free. I think that the Schenider little 4 element 100mm lens is not that bad after all.

As a collateral story and one that Klaus Esser will like is that I met a photographer that asked me about my work and was doing some landscape images himself. I asked what he had used and he said: 4 stitched C-Negs images 4x5 size that had previously scanned on his Imacon and merged in to what he was printing on a EPSON large printer. He has digital backs but said that "film is the best yet".

The good thing of My Own Color Lab is that they have Imacon scanner, EPSON printer and the analog C-Print machines.

I think that in terms of production costs printing from a negative is probably the cheapest and probably fastest way. On the other hand, photographers are getting used to controlling the image on the computer to micromanage zones of shadows/high lights, perspective correction etc etc.

On the esthetic side, Im happy about the way the project is going, the image of the container ship (I will temporarily title that "China Shipping" --you can read that on one of the metal boxes-- is what I want the project to be. The isolation of sea water bellow and sky above plus the cropping of the end abstract the ship and cleans elements that could be in for and back ground. The size of the man made thing and the fact that is moving but perfectly composed in water. The the cultural context like: china, global trade, consumer society, transportation and energy consumption, the seas, etc.

In practical terms I'm also positive about the idea because I can spend the whole summer getting a collection of ships taken from the exact geographic spot --the water and sky changes a lot, for what I can already observe--.

I can see an improvement on my part with the focusing and framing of the ships that results from getting acquainted with the Baby Century Graflex and may improve in the future with the needed parts that Will Thompson is kindly sending me.

Particularly the focusing glass that I suspect is not calibrated -- as a matter of fact, the glass is just taped to what used to be a magazine sheet film holder -- and the roll film magazine that is an adapted 6 x 6 working as a 6 x 9 that I roll by counting the number of revolutions on the know. I think that the best would be to have two or tree to shoot "fashion photographer" style to be able to be prepare for fast approaching ships.

Anyway, now I will go to stage III which is to show the preliminary images to people to comment...

Hey Leonardo, The 2x3 focusing plate, roll film inserts, and the 4x5 Speed Graphic should arrive this tuesday on Your doorstep via UPS.

Have fun with them!

Post more outstanding photos!

 

[Asher Kelman]

Will, thank you for the supplies, they will be useful here in the trenches

I'm so impressed with the composition of the picture as I was tricked into thinking we were looking out of a window! I was puzzled by the shadow on the left: perhaps a bridge on the left?

The Magritte Phenomenon was discussed in OPF, here.

Many of Magritte's pictures have some building, archway, door or room framing. We are always entering a scene. So is it real?

It is exciting for us to be able to follow your progress back to real film for part of your work!

I hope that you might get the other photographer to report on his 4x5 stitching!

Asher

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Asher, thank you for your review of the image of the image. I just pointed my LUMIX to the box of prints using available window light, but I like the paper box --they had tons of empty paper boxes in the lab--. Im happy that my work reminds you of the surrealists, and my intent is to present you with something intensely common and as interesting as a refrigerator in a heroic and incognito way. I always liked the contemplative way of the view camera, not only it gives you a bigger negative and more detail, but all the work that comes from framing the camera is so different than hand holding a single lens reflex with motor drive to "spray and pray".

What do you think about this other two images?

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Asher: here is an image of the lab and our friend the photographer -- unfortunately I didn't get his name -- stitching 4 scanned negatives of 4x5 and printing on the EPSON on the left... you should do a workshop one day and get together here with negatives to print, scan and plot for a week ... or something

 

[Klaus Esser]

Hi Leonardo!

Fine photographs, the ships! Structured very well - monumental, impressing.

Give my regards to the "unknown photographer"

best, Klaus

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

I think he was german. Probably 4 images of 4x5 for that size was "overkill".

As you can see, I'm a fair and balanced reporter. I only remembered what you wrote here earlier

He also said that this may change in the future.

 

[Ray West]

Hi Leonardo,

This thread is interesting to me, on many levels.

wrt the images, I think the second image, 'black&rust', would be the most impressive at the larger size, if the detail is really sharp, whereas I think the first is more 'arty' ('arty' in the sense you could play around with the colours, etc., and produce something further removed from 'pressing the button')

Like Asher, I took a double take on the first image - I thought it was matted and framed - couldn't understand the severe vignetting in the bottom corner... Need more coffee. ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray