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Paul Bestwick
March 2nd, 2007, 04:55 PM
"Canon senior engineer, Taki Somoishe, stated today in Las Vegas that the new Mark III Ds will ship in November in time for Christmas season. A 22mp full frame sensor with a new high speed chip coded Digic IV model. The camera will have a burst rate of 7 frames per second. The camera will not have a view screen similar to the 10 frame D model. The Mark III Ds will capture images in Jpeg, Raw and now tiff. More info to be announced in March"

There was general surprise that Taki said what he did at the conference...

" Although the 1D3 is an amazing camera, it's low on on pixels. New technology should allow 10 per second with at least 14mp "



Cheers,

Paul

Bart_van_der_Wolf
March 2nd, 2007, 05:21 PM
"Canon senior engineer, Taki Somoishe, stated today in Las Vegas that the new Mark III Ds will ...

Yes, the rumour mill at DPreview is going full speed ahead.

We'll see what is announced, and when it materializes, and judge by performance ...

Bart

Paul Bestwick
March 2nd, 2007, 05:32 PM
[QUOTE=Bart_van_der_Wolf;20781]Yes, the rumour mill at DPreview is going full speed ahead.

...
no surprise that it turns up there

Cheers,

Paul

Stan Jirman
March 3rd, 2007, 09:14 PM
will ship in November in time for Christmas season
... because the typical 1Ds shopper is looking for a Xmas gift for someone :)

Paul Bestwick
March 3rd, 2007, 10:26 PM
... because the typical 1Ds shopper is looking for a Xmas gift for someone :)

Yea, & the last Christmas 1 series gift I gave was to ........ME.... a couple of years back. I can feel the Christmas spirit returning this year...

Paul

Asher Kelman
March 4th, 2007, 02:19 AM
"Canon senior engineer, Taki Somoishe, stated today in Las Vegas that the new Mark III Ds will ship in November in time for Christmas season. A 22mp full frame sensor with a new high speed chip coded Digic IV model. The camera will have a burst rate of 7 frames per second. The camera will not have a view screen similar to the 10 frame D model. The Mark III Ds will capture images in Jpeg, Raw and now tiff. More info to be announced in March"

There was general surprise that Taki said what he did at the conference...

" Although the 1D3 is an amazing camera, it's low on on pixels. New technology should allow 10 per second with at least 14mp "



Cheers,

Paul

Paul, where is the original source of this quote? These are the facts as best I know them from a number odf. Canon has made a number of 1Ds >20MP models. As of April 2006 there were two models full frame. A 21 and a 24 MP camera. Each was 12 bit at the time.

Now it is likely that there have been other models too. As I methioned previously canon can go from zero to top speed in 3 months and deliver a new camera. That's how good they are. They are constantly doing versioning as they test out a new possible part of a new system. Canon had no need to bring out the 1DIII but could have last year. The 10MP sensor was ready, but again it was 12 BIT. It was lke Nikon was no show. The advantage of tis wait is the 1DIII is turbo-charged with dual Digic III prcessors.

I have heard zilch about a Digic IV, but no doubt even Digic V is on someone's desk!. Whatever one might talk about now, just early in March is unlikely to be exactly what Canon would dleiver in November. Canon would have that camera decided on say in May and then luxuriously get it ready for August-September to be released in November or else the following PMA.

Without any threat to the 1DsII, there is for sure no need to hurry when every 3 months there is better technology ripe from the Canon Juggernaut to include.

I'd really like to know where the alleged quote came from. If it were true, then it would be reported in more formal places. That, I have not seen but I'll look!

Asher

Bart_van_der_Wolf
March 4th, 2007, 05:13 AM
I'd really like to know where the alleged quote came from. If it were true, then it would be reported in more formal places. That, I have not seen but I'll look!

Asher, I've read it here (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=22276752).

Personally I don't know a "Canon senior engineer, Taki Somoishe", so it could be anything ranging from a prank or pure speculation, to a poor quote from a (culturally) misinterpreted Japanese person, or from an accurate statement to a deliberately misguiding 'leak'. Time will tell.

I remain sceptical about the dynamic range from such smallish sensels without a technology breakthrough, but who knows what's cooking in the Canon labs ...

Bart

Paul Bestwick
March 4th, 2007, 02:32 PM
Hi Asher,

I read it at Northlight..........


Cheers,

Paul

Dan Lovell
March 8th, 2007, 09:41 AM
Paul, where is the original source of this quote? These are the facts as best I know them from a number odf. Canon has made a number of 1Ds >20MP models. As of April 2006 there were two models full frame. A 21 and a 24 MP camera. Each was 12 bit at the time.

Now it is likely that there have been other models too. As I methioned previously canon can go from zero to top speed in 3 months and deliver a new camera. That's how good they are. They are constantly doing versioning as they test out a new possible part of a new system. Canon had no need to bring out the 1DIII but could have last year. The 10MP sensor was ready, but again it was 12 BIT. It was lke Nikon was no show. The advantage of tis wait is the 1DIII is turbo-charged with dual Digic III prcessors.

I have heard zilch about a Digic IV, but no doubt even Digic V is on someone's desk!. Whatever one might talk about now, just early in March is unlikely to be exactly what Canon would dleiver in November. Canon would have that camera decided on say in May and then luxuriously get it ready for August-September to be released in November or else the following PMA.

Without any threat to the 1DsII, there is for sure no need to hurry when every 3 months there is better technology ripe from the Canon Juggernaut to include.

I'd really like to know where the alleged quote came from. If it were true, then it would be reported in more formal places. That, I have not seen but I'll look!

Asher

Just 3 months to fab up a new camera from scratch? No, not on this planet. This is impossible and has never been done.

MArk Le
March 10th, 2007, 09:11 AM
my take on this 1Ds development is a mix of hopes and expectations:
the path of digital in studio & commercial is clear to me, since the first backs. And we're talking about high definition outputs, talking about the 1Ds segment.
Hasselblad is now all over the studios, and that's a fact. Mainly because of the brand name but also because of the increased quality (of the pictures). That's also a fact.

"quality" not to be confused with the only battle I see (since three years): noise.

I bought Neat Image for that, and it works. For the rest a 1Ds barely makes it compared to the old kodak 14n in terms of detail and color impact. 5 years old technology?

Dynamic range and real definition (real megapixels to be spread with some room to "breath") is the battle I want to see and packing more pixels into the same area is not what I expect as a solution.

Personally I did skip the Mark II and unless I see a real improvement in terms of definition I'll skip this Mark III as well.

The choice is between 24x36 and medium format backs. Talking still about the 1Ds segment.

In other words if I open a 1Ds (classic) file I still see pretty much the same images I'd get with the 1Ds Mark II (hmmm maybe a slightly stronger colors with the classic, to be honest)

Canon needs to make a choice if they want to stay in the segment as a leader: a bigger sensor and a bigger lens mount, better resolution and better lenses. If not Hasselblad will dominate (and pentax maybe, given the ZD uncertain future): because in the end what really counts is the quality of the pictures.

One more thing about the PJ and Sport cameras: who (ever) said that those photographers don't need quality? They do too... I submit 1Ds files to my Agency for news.. I mean...

:)

Will_Perlis
March 11th, 2007, 01:11 PM
A happy Chuck W. and 1Dmk3. You need the sound on for this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8h2AMllP0Y

Nill Toulme
March 11th, 2007, 01:55 PM
Cool. What's with the droopy nose on that lens though?

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Will_Perlis
March 11th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Good question. I think it's just distortion of light caused by the velocity of the shutter and mirror.

MArk Le
March 11th, 2007, 09:27 PM
:)
if you look closer you guys will find a S after the 1D in the title of this thread ...

we're indeed discussing the development of the new 1Ds

in any case, there is a new (nice) interview with Chuck Westfall, also about the new 580 flash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb3yuh_0E9s&mode=related&search=


talking about the flash, anyone knows if it will perform in AUTO also on a Canon camera?






P.S.: Imaging Resurce is doing a very good job reporting from the PMA this year

Tom Henkel
March 12th, 2007, 11:21 AM
A happy Chuck W. and 1Dmk3. You need the sound on for this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8h2AMllP0Y


Great clip of Chuck. It sums up the 1D MkIII announcement without using any actual words! Of course we won't see that sort of speed in the 1Ds MkIII -- or if we do Canon had better develop a machine-gun-like auto-loader for flash memory cards to go along with it. ;^)

Nill Toulme
March 12th, 2007, 11:34 AM
Isn't the 1Ds MkIII supposed to be 7fps? That's not too shabby either...

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Tom Henkel
March 12th, 2007, 11:49 AM
Isn't the 1Ds MkIII supposed to be 7fps? That's not too shabby either...

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net (http://www.toulme.net)

I haven't heard that one. I was assuming 5, maybe 6, FPS for a 21-22MP camera. Seven FPS would be impressive -- I guess. But, man, that would consume a lot of memory if you shot at 7 FPS for any length of time. A 22MP/7FPS camera would create some interesting possibilities for wildlife, sports and maybe even fashion shooters. Maybe Canon should give away the camera and sell proprietary flash memory cards! ;^)

Tom

Stan Jirman
March 12th, 2007, 09:13 PM
But, man, that would consume a lot of memory if you shot at 7 FPS for any length of time.
I seriously doubt that you'd get to shoot it for a "length of time" at that rate. The current camera does less than 3s. I seriously doubt that the new one will do much longer, which is my biggest gripe with the 1Ds line. What use is the frame rate if you can't really use it?

Eric Hiss
March 12th, 2007, 11:54 PM
...studio strobes that can keep up with that frame rate. The 1Ds was never a problem for me in the first place and I think for a lot of studio users the buffer won't be an issue either as the strobes still take a bit to recycle. I never hit the buffer on my 1Ds but often hit it on my 5D during shoots.

MArk Le
March 13th, 2007, 01:50 AM
What I really care is the quality of the details, the resolution, the clarity, the Dynamic range. All the gadgets (including more than 4 fps) are welcome of course, but what's important is the quality of the pictures.

A bigger sensor would also be welcome. And bigger glass as well.

I see a dramatic improvement in the quality of the new lenses (the 70-200 F4IS and the 50L) and I'd like to have a dramatic improvement with the pictures as well.

Pictures from the new hassy are plain beautiful, and so is the bank account needed to buy one.

But Canon has an advantage of several years in the segment, not only about the noise reduction because (frankly) I don't want to see a new 7K camera only able to take cleaner shots at ISO 1000 when Neat Image will do pretty much the same job (killing the clarity and details at the same time).

When I bought my first 1Ds I had mixed feelings about it, and I did switch to kodak 14n for a while to come back to the 1Ds once kodak left the building. But that AAless 14n still shows impressive shots in my hard drive, when I open the files...

Since then I was impressed by the Hassy files .. only

It's time for Canon to make a point, again. Like they did with the first 1Ds

Asher Kelman
March 13th, 2007, 03:09 AM
Marc,

That's on point and sobering!

BTW, forget speed, Can anything produce better quality than using a Mamiya 7II with an 80mm lens at f4-f11? I don't think so, not yet in 35mm.

Asher

Tim Dolan (Longwatcher)
March 13th, 2007, 06:57 AM
I for one am looking forward to a 1DsMkIII with at least 16MP, 6FPS and higher DR.

I would prefer 22MP to a max of 25MP, which is the point I have been given to understand from image scientists I spoke with a few years ago at which a 35mm format sensor would hit a practical limit in terms of the full range of use. If Canon said they had a 35mm sensor with 32 pixels, I would wait to see if they actually did manage to get acceptable noise without losing detail with that many pixels before buying, I will trust them up to 25MP.

I am hoping this same camera has higher dynamic range equaling B+W film. Even better would be a foveon style sensor that provides better color accuracy on top of higher dynamic range, but what I have now is acceptable for that.

And lastly I am wanting it to run faster then 6FPS (7 would be better). The reason for this last is although I am primarily a studio photographer, I have had some opportunities to shoot events where I needed the FPS of a Sports/photojournalism camera. So since I can only afford one more 1-series camera on my budget for the next 2-3 years, It has to be a studio camera, but I would like it to have the higher FPS when needed.

I don't need 10FPS, but 4 just doesn't quite cut it based on one of the opportunities I had a couple years ago to shoot paratroops leaving the plane (Army Golden Knights). At 4FPS I get two shots, one in the door and one way far away for each jump, I get a third, but even with a 1DsMkII, the jumper is a bit to far away even for me to crop. There is no time to zoom and I have to trust auto-focus (I also have to trust the little tiny strap going to the camera, but that is between me and State Farm). I figure 6FPS would get me one more shot in the middle at least and 7 or 8FPS would get me 4-5 decent shots to work from at varying distances before the jumper is too far away. So 7+ FPS would be desired.

There are no rental places within reasonable distance in my area (and none that would have a 1-series camera on hand) so can't exactly go out and rent one for the day. And both opportunities happened with less then one day's warning so can't have one shipped for rental. So I need at least one of my two Studio cameras to be a full multi-purpose camera with the resolution for studio that I like and need frequently and the speed I need ocasionally.

So that is my need for speed.

Nill Toulme
March 13th, 2007, 07:34 AM
I read somewhere that the 1DsIII will be 7fps, but I can't remember where.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Tim Dolan (Longwatcher)
March 13th, 2007, 08:55 AM
I read somewhere that the 1DsIII will be 7fps, but I can't remember where.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Northlight rumor site, rumor from pre PMA reporting supposed Canon engineer at Photographic Engineer's Meeting

Look down to 2 Feb under this link for original source of this rumor.
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_1DS_MkIII.html

I wish someone could validate this as a second person who had direct experience that either the meeting took place, what was said or that the Canon person really exists and works for Canon (or at least did at the time of the speech).

I suspect that the limit Chuck Westfall could do is confirm if the person did NOT exist at Canon, but he probably can't confirm anything else and probably can't respond, but maybe someone else knows someone who was there.

Tom Henkel
March 13th, 2007, 12:13 PM
I seriously doubt that you'd get to shoot it for a "length of time" at that rate. The current camera does less than 3s. I seriously doubt that the new one will do much longer, which is my biggest gripe with the 1Ds line. What use is the frame rate if you can't really use it?

I didn't count how many frames Chuck fired off in that 1D MkIII video, but I was thinking if they were each 22MB raw files you would need a stack of memory cards and one serious buffer to keep up. But even if the 1Ds MkIII comes in at 5fps, if you were spending a morning shooting wildlife, doing multiple bursts at 5FPS, you would be consume a ton of memory.

It may be technically possible to take the 1Ds into the range of 7fps, I just wonder how practical such an achievement would be. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't get the sense that more fps is a top issue for most people shooting 1Ds bodies. Better dynamic range and image quality that rivals MF cameras are higher priorities.

Tom

MArk Le
March 13th, 2007, 12:40 PM
Asher

eheh

I did a test between a (drum) scan from a bronica (80mm) and a 1Ds (50mm) some 4 years ago... after that I made the decision to don't do it again NEVER AGAIN.. LOL

but the 1Ds was close, not equal but close, but not equal


talking about pure resolution power because about the Dynamic Range the gap was indeed bigger

The digital workflow is amazing, no questions but in terms of clarity, color impact and definition even contrast digital still needs to improve.

What I was trying to say before is more like I'm not convinced that the upgrades went to the right direction. If you take the first 1D files and compare to the current 1DII files (for example) I'd say that while the 4MP was short in resolution (obviously) the other good characteristics (one for all the colors) went kind of .. lost in the way in the name of the enemy of the moment identified as the noise at high ISO.

Asher Kelman
March 13th, 2007, 03:03 PM
Mark,

I'd venture to stick my neck out and ask how much improvement hase be made since Neil Turner made these pictures with the 30D? written in 2000 by Neil Turner a wonderful photographer and teacher in England at dg28.com who wrote a stellar second opinion (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canond30/page21.asp) on the Canon 30D which suddenly changed my view of photography for ever.

These pictures are copyrighted property of Neil Turner and are shown under fair use for editoral comment only.

http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/canond30_samples4/davies-neil-020.jpg


http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/canond30_samples4/kemp-neil-008.jpg


http://img2.dpreview.com/gallery/canond30_samples4/kemp-neil-043.jpg


Such pictures to me meant a new age had arrived! Here was process that would eclipse film for most photojournalistic, sports and wedding photography. These three pictures heralded for me, at least, the dawn of a real new age!

Incidentally I was always concerned about this lovely ballet teacher's skin as there are two to three likely basal cell cancers hardly disguised by make up! That means that this lady was healthy and didn't need doctors much! Also the slip of the lipstick shows something about her eyesight perhaps or the steadiness of her hands. She's a fine lady who has had a long, long career, special teacher with dignity, skill and a beautiful authority.

Of course, the camera needed a unique vision of a skilled artistic photographer to light, position compose and process to make this pciture, but the D30 was his chosen tool. These 3 pictures are iconic and stunning testimony to the quality of both the work of Nei Turner and the expressive capabilities of the new D30 camera.

I do not think we are really much further ahead with our final images for most ordinary work. This, for just me at least, was the leap to the professional digital age!


Asher

Stan Jirman
March 14th, 2007, 12:14 AM
I didn't count how many frames Chuck fired off in that 1D MkIII video, but I was thinking if they were each 22MB raw files you would need a stack of memory cards and one serious buffer to keep up. But even if the 1Ds MkIII comes in at 5fps, if you were spending a morning shooting wildlife, doing multiple bursts at 5FPS, you would be consume a ton of memory.

So? At the time of the 1Ds intro, at 11MP, the biggest drive one could buy was 250GB (with 300GB around the corner in May 2003), and the biggest CF memory card was 1GB (I got two of the very first 2GB cards overnighted the day before my honeymoon, which is why I remember it very well - at $799/piece). Today, by the time the 1Ds3 will ship, the largest disk will be 1TB (shipping in April) and _today_ a 16GB SanDisk III card costs $230. So by all measures, the original 1Ds was "much harder" on memory. I am pretty sure the same can be said for computer speed and RAM.

By and large, the cost of memory and storage is peanuts compared to the cost of missed opportunities or even the $8k sticker of the 1Ds series (so far anyway). I shot 220GB worth of my daughter so far and of all the things that I've spent my money on this past year, this doesn't itch me even a little bit. YMMV, of course.

Don Lashier
March 14th, 2007, 02:04 AM
Aside from high ISO I'm still pleased with my 1D and have seen no reason to upgrade yet as the resolution is plenty for 12 x 18 which is the largest I ever print. The 1DIII has me thinking but I may just wait til they make a real breakthrough with DR and not just more useless megapixels.

- DL

Asher Kelman
March 14th, 2007, 02:32 AM
The 1DIII, BTW switches off autofocus when you have live preview!!! Just in case they are still wondering about specifications for the 1DsIII in November to March 2008!

Does the Olympus 510 do that too??

Hmmm?

Asher

John Sheehy
March 14th, 2007, 06:49 AM
Aside from high ISO I'm still pleased with my 1D and have seen no reason to upgrade yet as the resolution is plenty for 12 x 18 which is the largest I ever print. The 1DIII has me thinking but I may just wait til they make a real breakthrough with DR and not just more useless megapixels.


Pixels are not adverse to DR. You can not gauge the DR of an image by the DR of its pixels. A 4MP camera with 1/2 the pixel noise of a 16MP camera has the same image noise, and lower resolution.

Nill Toulme
March 14th, 2007, 07:06 AM
The 1DIII, BTW switches off autofocus when you have live preview!!! Just in case they are still wondering about specifications for the 1DsIII in November to March 2008!
...

And I read somewhere that the 1DsIII will not have live preview.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Tom Henkel
March 14th, 2007, 07:40 AM
So? At the time of the 1Ds intro, at 11MP, the biggest drive one could buy was 250GB (with 300GB around the corner in May 2003), and the biggest CF memory card was 1GB (I got two of the very first 2GB cards overnighted the day before my honeymoon, which is why I remember it very well - at $799/piece). Today, by the time the 1Ds3 will ship, the largest disk will be 1TB (shipping in April) and _today_ a 16GB SanDisk III card costs $230. So by all measures, the original 1Ds was "much harder" on memory. I am pretty sure the same can be said for computer speed and RAM.

By and large, the cost of memory and storage is peanuts compared to the cost of missed opportunities or even the $8k sticker of the 1Ds series (so far anyway). I shot 220GB worth of my daughter so far and of all the things that I've spent my money on this past year, this doesn't itch me even a little bit. YMMV, of course.

So...It's an issue of practical use. I would be delighted if the 1DsMkIII offered 22mp @ 7fps (assuming it doesn't dramatically increase the price). But if you regularly shoot action situations it's still too slow and burns up too much memory to be your primary camera.

If you were given the assignment of shooting a high resolution action shot for the cover of Sports Illustrated, a 1Ds MkIII (assuming 22mp/7fps turns out to be what is really announced) would certainly get the job done. For some fashion shoots it would be fantastic. Same with wildlife shooting. But you would still want to carry a 1D MkIII for regular action coverage because the limitations of this sort of camera would eventually get in your way. You would either have to shoot tethered to a big hard disk or carry a bunch of memory cards in the field.

To its credit, Canon responded to real customer needs with the 1D MkIII. I haven't seen a significant customer outcry for a high fps 1Ds. More DR? You bet. Higher ISO? yes. Better IQ? Always. More fps? -- sure if you can throw it in at no additional cost.

It seems to me the 7fps rumor is a variation of the consolidated 1D/1Ds rumor that was floating around last year at this time. While I would love to see it happen, I'm skeptical that it's real.

Tom

Aaron Strasburg
March 14th, 2007, 08:53 PM
Asher,

The 1DIII has to switch off AF when in live preview because the mirror's no longer there to bounce the light onto the AF sensor. I suppose you could do some sort of contrast detection as on point and shoot cameras using the main sensor, but I don't think you'd be very happy with that.

I don't know about the Olympus cameras with live preview. I vaguely remember that the E330 uses a second, lower resolution sensor for live preview so it may actually be able to maintain AF.

Aaron

MArk Le
March 15th, 2007, 01:38 AM
Mark,

I'd venture to stick my neck out and ask how much improvement hase be made since Neil Turner made these pictures with the 30D? written in 2000 by Neil Turner a wonderful photographer and teacher in England at dg28.com






Asher,
that was a fantastic flashback! well done.
I do remember the pictures, Neil did surprise myself too.


how much improvement you ask? LOL from THAT?

now we have better high ISO shots. Do we? Or we maybe think that we do.

It was not so long ago (but still several years ago) when I took this shot that made it to the news that day and one my first with a digital camera with that destination. 1Ds RAW manual ISO 500 1/100 2.8. Flash (metz 54 in AUTO) set -1 (EV) bounced with omnibounce) second reflector active.

http://www.imagingphotographics.com/2033_tre_400.jpg

it was a typical ISO 500 2.8 shot and by then I was amazed by the power of digital in terms of resolution and pure definition. ISO 500... 100 more than my usual shots with film. And I was so happy. The shadows there tell the story, and there is no sign of noise (in the shadows). This shot was basically "untouched" by Post Processing, not even luminosity, not even USM.

Today all I hear is how to fight the noise. and how many more pixels can be packed into the same area.


looking at the pictures Neil took with a D30 sure one starts thinking... and thinking

good you did reminding us about it!

:)

Bart_van_der_Wolf
March 15th, 2007, 03:40 AM
The 1DIII, BTW switches off autofocus when you have live preview!!!

With the current Canon AF system it has to disable AF, because the AF sensors get their light from the little rear mirror behind the main mirror (a proven system that appears to work fine). So the mirror has to be in place for auto focus. Once the mirror is flipped up and out of the way, then the projected image can be viewed when the shutter is opened. Before the actual exposure the shutter has to be physically closed in order to allow resetting the sensor array, draining all charge (sometimes multiple drains).

Point and Shoot cameras sometimes use an electronic shutter (draining while being exposed), but the better ones also use a physical shutter which improves dynamic range.

Bart

Paul Bestwick
March 15th, 2007, 08:47 AM
Mark once again I am reminded (by your post ) about the amount of BS regarding, noise, IQ, etc, etc. Who cares.

I came through using blads & I thouht they were the bees knees. Now I am not the type of guy that shoots brick walls or test charts.........(for those that do that is great......saves me doing it) I just have real life customers...they love what I do. Now if you looked through my work technically there is no question you would find fault. However, you want to give me my Blads back.........shove it baby, digital rocks. My 1DSII is gold. Due to my ignorance I don't even push the files to the max potential, but even with my limited knowledge the images kill anything I was getting out of the Hasslebalds (film) If this was the end game as far as digital is concerned I would be more then happy...........however........as I have previously stated, bring on that 1DSMKIII, it is gonna seriously rock.

Ciao,

Paul

John_Nevill
March 19th, 2007, 07:43 AM
This is an interesting debate, I does make wonder what the end game is, although does it really matter?, dSLRs are becoming commodities akin to computers, on day the you buy them they're obselete.

3 years ago the average Joe used a 200 digicam , now everwhere I go I see dSLRs.

I use 1DMKIINs and if had 1 for everyone that recently snubbed it for its lowly 8mp resolution, in a "look at my 10mp+ model", I'd have a 1DSMkII by now.

Surely photography is about the image and what you get out of your camera, if its film, digital or organic(?), again does it matter?

Although I must confess to shooting targets, but not brick walls!, At the time it was a learning exrecise to both familiarise myself with the product and to determine its limitations. Which at the end of the day probably turned out to be me!

Will_Perlis
March 19th, 2007, 09:00 AM
John,

The "Mine is better than yours" thing has been going on since Grofplug compared his rock to the one Frebjor picked up, it's just that the net spreads it more rapidly and widely. The same goes for nit-picking about the not relevant. I'm convinced that if some photographer got a shot of the Buddah, Christ, Abraham, and Mohammad at a coffee house, hashing out what God really meant, some dude on the net would complain about a sensor dust spot on a robe or a blown highlight in a halo.

IMO, one must learn to ignore the rabble, and in a really indifferent way, not in a defiant way that gives their opinions weight. Fortunately, the net provides ample opportunities for that learning.

Asher Kelman
March 19th, 2007, 09:40 AM
John,

The "Mine is better than yours" thing has been going on since Grofplug compared his rock to the one Frebjor picked up, it's just that the net spreads it more rapidly and widely. The same goes for nit-picking about the not relevant. I'm convinced that if some photographer got a shot of the Buddah, Christ, Abraham, and Mohammad at a coffee house, hashing out what God really meant, some dude on the net would complain about a sensor dust spot on a robe or a blown highlight in a halo.

IMO, one must learn to ignore the rabble, and in a really indifferent way, not in a defiant way that gives their opinions weight. Fortunately, the net provides ample opportunities for that learning.

Will,

This sums up the main thrust of this community, going from what the photographer has in his/her head to an impressive print and then joy. It's not more complicated than that!

I happen to call this The Arc of Intent. It concentrates on our effort not the camera's prowess.

The camera is just something in between the photographers imagination and the thrill of those who "get it" time and again when looking at the photographer's work.

Asher