Great B&W Image! How we judge with little fact!

[Asher Kelman]

http://contaxg.com/files/1678/sep01a-10.jpg
Dance Club Row, Sincheon, Seoul, 2AM


Hi Kevin,

This picture is quite important to me in that it is in B&W with great tonality. The color does not enchant us, since we are going a little deeper. Here we see the social fabric of the area. Are these just girls having an evening out or are these women prostitutes selling themselves to tourists?

We don't know the answers.

Often that is true. Many of our opinions of people come from our own stock of beliefs, imagination and limited knowledge.

Mostly our ideas are merely infectious memes or beliefs which spread like easily, without necessarily being fully formed from interlocking facts. Rather we use a few facts and cenet them together with whatever.

So I guess, my concent is that these are fun girls who are for sale.

Asher

[Asher Kelman]

On furthe looking, the men behind are European. Now I'm paying more attention. That's what we do. My feel would be, yes, that is obviously a place of women selling themselves and these are customers. OTOH, these could be tourists who are asking what time the club opened till.

Asher

[Kevin Bjorke]

Thanks Asher.

To tell the truth, I heard them crying, it was 2AM, I was wandering alleyways, I had my camera. Those guys were Korean, btw.

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Kevin,

What kind of a place was it at? How old where the men and did they interact or you don't know?

You stopped because you heard them sobbing or stopped because the shapes were interesting then noted they were crying?

Did you take other pictures too? Did they notice you and how did they react?

Asher

[doug anderson]

I'm reading either 1) police or 2) pimps

The girls look terrified.

Then, again, I've been reading books on human trafficking.

[Dierk Haasis]

We don't know the answers.

Could it be, Art does not give answers but questions?

[Ray West]

Context is important.
Presented here, we think there is some sort of implied art. On the floor, in the midst of other photos taken perhaps for forensic purposes, some other reason. Korea, different then Paris.

But, it falls within the snapshot category. Maybe photojournalist if you want to be picky, since heads have been cut off, and it is Black and White. As some sort of social comment, - meaningless to me, without some other information. I am happy that some cultures are different than here.

Just my view.

Best wishes,

Ray

[Nill Toulme]

... I am happy that some cultures are different than here. ...


??? Different than "here" in what respect? I have no particular notion of what is happening in this image. One can imagine almost anything — are the looming male figures there to threaten or to comfort? But whatever it is, good or ill, do you think it doesn't go on in the UK or the US?

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

[Ray West]

Hi Nil,

I was meaning that not everywhere is the same, and I am happy about that. I do not want the British or USA or French or any particular standards imposed on other cultures.

Of course, the image could be anywhere. Asher immediately thought it was Europe. Is that because he thinks that European looking Koreans do not live in the USA?.What happens elsewhere, different than USA, is bound to be bad, but on the other hand?

I am trying to say, that things that we accept as normal, are not normal for others, at all levels. A simple example - you may think it is normal to want to buy a $2000.00 camera lens, your neighbour may think it is a waste of money, when he needs a new lawn mower.

So far, I see it as Kevin walking along, takes a snapshot, possibly in some sort of not safe environment, and it is being presented as some great work of art by Asher, but much of that is based on the fact it is not in the USA, the novelty of abroad. Now, maybe, in Korea the streets are filled late at night with squatting women. It may be part of their culture. The image has no traction for me, without something else to grab hold to. Even then, I would probably glance and pass on.

Best wishes,

Ray

[Nill Toulme]

No disagreement here with any of that. ;-)

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net