Reflections in high ISO (12800)

[Cem_Usakligil]

Hi folks,

I am really starting to enjoy my new 5D Mk II. I was in Rotterdam this evening and I took a few shots using ISO 6400 and ISO 12800. To my surprise, they are very usable. Take the following picture for instance. This was a reflection of a building in the canal.

Canon 5D Mk II, EF 70-200L f2.8 IS, f3.2, 1/25, ISO 12800, handheld. C&C is welcome.

Cheers,

 

[Asher Kelman]

Cem,

Amazingly handsome and beautiful! Did you do much to get those colors.

Asher

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Cem,

Amazingly handsome and beautiful! Did you do much to get those colors.

Asher

No, just the regular conversion using ACR with a bit of a Clarity + Vibrance.

 

[Ken Tanaka]

This is a wonderful image, Cem, that I wish I'd taken (as part of a project on my workbench). I'd be tempted to trim the black line from frame top and -perhaps- a bit from the right. But I would probably first print the whole image and put it in a place where I could easily see it often for at least one week before I made such decisions.

And, yes, I know what you mean about the 5DII. I also marvel at its low-light capabilities, as well as at its generally superb imaging performance. It's rather relegated my 1DsIII to a mostly indoor studio camera.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Cem,

Hi folks,

I am really starting to enjoy my new 5D Mk II. I was in Rotterdam this evening and I took a few shots using ISO 6400 and ISO 12800. To my surprise, they are very usable. Take the following picture for instance. This was a reflection of a building in the canal.

Just exquisite!

 

[Asher Kelman]

The Netherlands in hieroglyphs!

Photo Cem Usakligi Rotterdam: Reflection of a building in a Canal​

Reflection of the building in the water is so modern combining so many colors and gestures it's like painting on water, a light spectacle with ancient hieroglyphs. This is one of the most spectacular images shared here! Are there more?

Ken's correct: it needs to be first seen large on a wall as a spectacular print before you decide any changes. Also I'd do tests of small portions on different media, but you'd do that without my prompting, LOL!

If you get moved to entertain building on or within the picture, I'd print 2 copies and cut pieces of one to test as supplements the top of the other. If you like it, and that lasts, then you can do the same seamlessly in photoshop!

This small and unusually symbolic creative glimpse of the Netherlands tells me how much I have not seen of this country: one of Europe's greatest economies, rebels against France, victims of WWII Germany and leaders in ideas of justice. I always go to London, Paris, Venice and Florence when I'm in Europe. We should be also visiting the Dutch Netherlands, but we don't! That is a puzzle! The fact that Van Gogh's works came to Los Angeles during the redoing of the Museum, meant I could see that collection here. We are so spoiled! However, I now want to make up for my past and visit Netherlands next time I go back to Europe.

I wonder if there are tours that can give some idea of the immense engineering feats that protect the lowlands. Anyway, your picture reminds me of how some of us follow custom, always returning to the same favorites. Coming from England, France and Germany were easy destinations as we learned their languages at school. Italy was always a compulsory part of the young European's education.

There is so much to see. Thanks for jogging my imagination!

Asher

As an aside, we do drive off a lot of folk in that we filter out many at registration and then we focus a lot on esthetics, the experience and enjoyment of the picture itself. However, here, I see the fruit of all that effort. This and other recent pictures indicate we are, perhaps, on the right tack.

 

[nicolas claris]

Cem
this is simply beautifull!

I repost here, just to get another chance to look at it!

 

[John Sheehy]

Hi folks,

I am really starting to enjoy my new 5D Mk II. I was in Rotterdam this evening and I took a few shots using ISO 6400 and ISO 12800. To my surprise, they are very usable. Take the following picture for instance. This was a reflection of a building in the canal.

Canon 5D Mk II, EF 70-200L f2.8 IS, f3.2, 1/25, ISO 12800, handheld. C&C is welcome.

Very nice. This is one of my favorite types of photography. In NYC, we don't have much in the way of canals (the few that exist are either inaccessible due to private property, or are out in the open with nothing to reflect), so I have to settle for puddles after the rain (after kicking out the cigarette butts and comedy club brochures).

As for the high ISO, it seems that noise issues tend to be greatest when you have extensive areas that are flat and dark, but not quite near black. The converters tend to pull those up and give the zones full color saturation, emphasizing the noise. When you have an image that is either high key or high contrast, it's not really much of an issue, as the blacks are rendered close to black, and the SNR in the brighter areas is not particularly offensive.

However, if you're shooting RAW, nothing over ISO 3200 is actually using any extra real sensitivity; an under-exposed 3200 has everything 25600 has, plus 4 stops of extra highlights, with smaller files to boot. These are a big trade-in for accurate EC and FEC, and a bright review image and bright embedded JPEG.

Canon is just so slow and conservative with ideas; they could have implemented all ISOs above 3200 (or any user-set ISO level) with HTP automatically, with zero compromise, and many gains (smaller RAWs, more headroom, and accurate EC and FEC).

 

[James Newman]

All I can do here Cem is second the opinions already shared. (Except Mr. Sheehy but only because I really did not understand what he was stating) The photo is magnificent and right up my alley as far as what I really enjoy. I love abstract, graphic, and highly colorful imagery and this fits all of those nicely. You said that to your surprise, the high ISO photos were "very usable". That is really an understatement. Like Asher, I hope you have more to share.
James Newman

 

[Bill Miller]

Cem, Great shot!

This should be printed on Fuji "Super Gloss" it is like the old Cibachrome. The colors and intensity will just jump off the paper. This traditional glossy photo paper has beautiful color and rich, deep blacks

 

[Ken Tanaka]

Cem, Great shot!

This should be printed on Fuji "Super Gloss" it is like the old Cibachrome. The colors and intensity will just jump off the paper. This traditional glossy photo paper has beautiful color and rich, deep blacks

Indeed. Pictorico Hi-Gloss Film would be excellent for this, too.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Guys I am so overwhelmed by your very kind reactions that I had to clear my head before I could start reacting . You lot know how to encourage me, thanks a lot.

This is a wonderful image, Cem, that I wish I'd taken (as part of a project on my workbench). I'd be tempted to trim the black line from frame top and -perhaps- a bit from the right. But I would probably first print the whole image and put it in a place where I could easily see it often for at least one week before I made such decisions.

And, yes, I know what you mean about the 5DII. I also marvel at its low-light capabilities, as well as at its generally superb imaging performance. It's rather relegated my 1DsIII to a mostly indoor studio camera.

Ken coming from you this is a great compliment, I am honored. I am going to print it on a high gloss paper just like suggested by Bill below, so let's see how it looks like. The 5DII is an excellent camera and I am so thrilled by it. I was kind of afraid that it would be more like the 40D (which is also a good camera) but only with more pixels. Thanks goodness 5DII is much, much more than that.

Hi, Cem,

Just exquisite!

Thanks Doug, you are way too kind.

...Reflection of the building in the water is so modern combining so many colors and gestures it's like painting on water, a light spectacle with ancient hieroglyphs. This is one of the most spectacular images shared here! Are there more?

Ken's correct: it needs to be first seen large on a wall as a spectacular print before you decide any changes. Also I'd do tests of small portions on different media, but you'd do that without my prompting, LOL!

If you get moved to entertain building on or within the picture, I'd print 2 copies and cut pieces of one to test as supplements the top of the other. If you like it, and that lasts, then you can do the same seamlessly in photoshop!

This small and unusually symbolic creative glimpse of the Netherlands tells me how much I have not seen of this country: one of Europe's greatest economies, rebels against France, victims of WWII Germany and leaders in ideas of justice. I always go to London, Paris, Venice and Florence when I'm in Europe. We should be also visiting the Dutch Netherlands, but we don't! That is a puzzle! The fact that Van Gogh's works came to Los Angeles during the redoing of the Museum, meant I could see that collection here. We are so spoiled! However, I now want to make up for my past and visit Netherlands next time I go back to Europe.

I wonder if there are tours that can give some idea of the immense engineering feats that protect the lowlands. Anyway, your picture reminds me of how some of us follow custom, always returning to the same favorites. Coming from England, France and Germany were easy destinations as we learned their languages at school. Italy was always a compulsory part of the young European's education.

There is so much to see. Thanks for jogging my imagination!

Asher

As an aside, we do drive off a lot of folk in that we filter out many at registration and then we focus a lot on esthetics, the experience and enjoyment of the picture itself. However, here, I see the fruit of all that effort. This and other recent pictures indicate we are, perhaps, on the right tack.

Hi Asher,
There is some more but this one was my first choice. There is another picture which shows the context of this picture but I am afraid I may be diminishing the magic of the original one, LOL.
You, and any other OPFers, are welcome to come visit our small country anytime. Just give Bart and me a shout and we will be your guides here.

Cem
this is simply beautifull!
I repost here, just to get another chance to look at it!

Merci beaucoup Nicolas!

Very nice. This is one of my favorite types of photography. In NYC, we don't have much in the way of canals (the few that exist are either inaccessible due to private property, or are out in the open with nothing to reflect), so I have to settle for puddles after the rain (after kicking out the cigarette butts and comedy club brochures).

As for the high ISO, it seems that noise issues tend to be greatest when you have extensive areas that are flat and dark, but not quite near black. The converters tend to pull those up and give the zones full color saturation, emphasizing the noise. When you have an image that is either high key or high contrast, it's not really much of an issue, as the blacks are rendered close to black, and the SNR in the brighter areas is not particularly offensive.

However, if you're shooting RAW, nothing over ISO 3200 is actually using any extra real sensitivity; an under-exposed 3200 has everything 25600 has, plus 4 stops of extra highlights, with smaller files to boot. These are a big trade-in for accurate EC and FEC, and a bright review image and bright embedded JPEG.

Canon is just so slow and conservative with ideas; they could have implemented all ISOs above 3200 (or any user-set ISO level) with HTP automatically, with zero compromise, and many gains (smaller RAWs, more headroom, and accurate EC and FEC).

All very nice ideas John, let's hope Canon will follow suit with at least some of them.

All I can do here Cem is second the opinions already shared. (Except Mr. Sheehy but only because I really did not understand what he was stating) The photo is magnificent and right up my alley as far as what I really enjoy. I love abstract, graphic, and highly colorful imagery and this fits all of those nicely. You said that to your surprise, the high ISO photos were "very usable". That is really an understatement. Like Asher, I hope you have more to share.
James Newman

James I am glad you've liked the photo. I'll do my best to show more such photos; if not soon, at least in the near future.

Cem, Great shot!

This should be printed on Fuji "Super Gloss" it is like the old Cibachrome. The colors and intensity will just jump off the paper. This traditional glossy photo paper has beautiful color and rich, deep blacks

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the compliment and the idea. I was wondering which paper to use for this print and I had also decided to use a glossy one. So glossy shall it be.

Cheers,

 

[Asher Kelman]

Indeed. Pictorico Hi-Gloss Film would be excellent for this, too.

Just for reference the choice of printer specific profiles are provided for the Pictorico papers here.

Presumably there are 3rd party profiles made and of course customized profiles.

Ken,

What profiles are you using?

Asher

 

[Ken Tanaka]

Just for reference the choice of printer specific profiles are provided for the Pictorico papers here.

Presumably there are 3rd party profiles made and of course customized profiles.

Ken,

What profiles are you using?

Asher

For Pictorico gloss I generally just use the standard Epson 3800 profile for Epson Premium Gloss paper. I used to use a profile that built with my EyeOne but, frankly, I think that the Epson profile works better with this rather funky paper.

 

[Bill Miller]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the compliment and the idea. I was wondering which paper to use for this print and I had also decided to use a glossy one. So glossy shall it be.

Cheers,

Print one yourself, then find a lab that can print the Fuji, you will see the difference. There is not an inkjet paper that compares to Super-Gloss. Here in the states West Coast Imaging is probably the best. http://www.westcoastimaging.com/ Super-Gloss prints are not cheap however.

 

[Andy brown]

Cem, it's superb.
I love the painterly effect,.. beautiful.

 

[Mike Shimwell]

Cem

Stunning.

Mike

 

[janet Smith]

Hi Cem

I've just got up and seen this, absolutely beautiful, can't wait to get my 5DMkII!

 

[Andrew Rodney]

All I can do here Cem is second the opinions already shared. (Except Mr. Sheehy but only because I really did not understand what he was stating)

What he's correctly saying is that there's no reason to set the 5DMII to anything higher than 3200 ISO when shooting Raw, you'll actually end up with less noise by altering the exposure slider in ACR/LR. The hither ISO's are only useful for JPEG capture.

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

What he's correctly saying is that there's no reason to set the 5DMII to anything higher than 3200 ISO when shooting Raw, you'll actually end up with less noise by altering the exposure slider in ACR/LR. The hither ISO's are only useful for JPEG capture.

This is very useful info Andrew & John, thanks a lot. I was (and possibly still am) going to put this to test myself (you know, the "proof of the pudding" thing) but since you guys both vouch for it, who am I to doubt?

Cheers,

 

[James Newman]

Thank you for clarifying for me. I have shot at 6400 with my D3 on numerous occasions but in RAW, not jpeg. I will remember this from now on.
James

 

[Andrew Rodney]

This is very useful info Andrew & John, thanks a lot. I was (and possibly still am) going to put this to test myself (you know, the "proof of the pudding" thing) but since you guys both vouch for it, who am I to doubt?

Go right ahead. Note that this info was provided by the Adobe engineer who built the new DNG converter and profiles for ACR/LR (Eric Chan). It may differ in other converters but I suspect not.

 

[Andrew Rodney]

Thank you for clarifying for me. I have shot at 6400 with my D3 on numerous occasions but in RAW, not jpeg. I will remember this from now on.
James

The post by Eric specifically mentioned the 5DMII. Not sure that this applies or not to a D3.

 

[John Sheehy]

The post by Eric specifically mentioned the 5DMII. Not sure that this applies or not to a D3.

Current cameras aren't really improving in SNR relative to absolute signal as you climb up into the higher ISOs. The differences can be quite dramatic at the low ISOs (IOW, the difference between using 400 and 100 at -2 EC is tremendous in the darker areas, as the latter will have almost 4x as much noise there), but not all cameras have that much of a difference, even down there. All cameras, however, have only subtle noise benefits or none at all shooting RAW at ISO 3200, say, instead of 1600 with -1 EC. In the case of the 5D2, there is just a tad less banding noise. AFAIK, no cameras improve in any way going above 3200, except possibly for cases where RAW converters used are not very good at pushing.

 

[John Sheehy]

AFAIK, no cameras improve in any way going above 3200, except possibly for cases where RAW converters used are not very good at pushing.

The best way to see what you're compromising with a particular camera is to take the same wide-DR shot in manual exposure mode, changing the ISO, and see what the differences are, with the converter you use. It's good to know what you're gambling with. It's a pity to compromise, if there really isn't a compromise!

 

[Ivan Garcia]

Beautiful image Cem.
The abstract waves and colours works wonderfully here... it looks like colourful musical notes in a dreamy partiture. Print this one large

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

Beautiful image Cem.
The abstract waves and colours works wonderfully here... it looks like colourful musical notes in a dreamy partiture. Print this one large

Thanks Ivan, I'll print it large asap and see how it looks like. On Bill's suggestion, I may even go back to reshoot using a lower ISO if this one turns out to be less than satisfactory.

Cheers,

 

[Cem_Usakligil]

The best way to see what you're compromising with a particular camera is to take the same wide-DR shot in manual exposure mode, changing the ISO, and see what the differences are, with the converter you use. It's good to know what you're gambling with. It's a pity to compromise, if there really isn't a compromise!

Hi John,

Precisely what I had in my mind when I talked about testing earlier. Thx.

Cheers,

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Cem - Metallic

CEm,

I assume you are self printing but it would be a perfect Metallic Print!

I think it's magnificient!

xoxoxo,

 

[Sean DeMerchant]

Quite striking Cem, I like it. I am not a big fan of impressionism, but this works very well for me.