Alain's Printing Mastery Workshop Review

[Georg R. Baumann]

Greetings,

Is there anyone around here who purchased this, or visited his course with the same material, and would be willing to write a brief review of the material on offer?

http://www.beautiful-landscape.com/Articles-CD-Mastery-10-Years-SPO.html

I read all the information and downloaded the sampler. The sampler just cuts out any useful information, well I suppose it is meant to be a teaser only, but to me it would be more useful to have a complete chapter available instead.

Even "only" 775$ seems like a lot of money to me and I would love to hear from independant sources what they think on the material on offer.

I think I understand that this is Alain's unique way to prepare and print fine art on epson printers.

Then again, although I do not have a LFP available at the moment, while many tasks are redundant regardless what printer you use, I would assume that there are many ways to skin a cat, hence this is probably a very special approach to it that he shares.

This would be very interesting to look at in deed, but I am somewhat certain that a lot of the material would be like "nothing new under the sun" and is common sense and knowledge one obtains anyways when dealing with the subject, then again, I might be wrong, I have not seen it, hence the question here.

 

[Klaus Esser]

Greetings,

Is there anyone around here who purchased this, or visited his course with the same material, and would be willing to write a brief review of the material on offer?

http://www.beautiful-landscape.com/Articles-CD-Mastery-10-Years-SPO.html

I read all the information and downloaded the sampler. The sampler just cuts out any useful information, well I suppose it is meant to be a teaser only, but to me it would be more useful to have a complete chapter available instead.

Even "only" 775$ seems like a lot of money to me and I would love to hear from independant sources what they think on the material on offer.

I think I understand that this is Alain's unique way to prepare and print fine art on epson printers.

Then again, although I do not have a LFP available at the moment, while many tasks are redundant regardless what printer you use, I would assume that there are many ways to skin a cat, hence this is probably a very special approach to it that he shares.

This would be very interesting to look at in deed, but I am somewhat certain that a lot of the material would be like "nothing new under the sun" and is common sense and knowledge one obtains anyways when dealing with the subject, then again, I might be wrong, I have not seen it, hence the question here.

hey Georg!

Make me a list of quenstions you want answered. I have some real professional print-guys around here who are printing gallery-level for some very well known artists in photography.

"775$?" For a CD/DVD with tips how to print? I´d rather buy some rare vinyl records for the money . . . - sorry, but . .
Who makes this "mastery"-workshop? Funny: a "master" it takes many years to become regularly.
Nowadays seems you can reach mastership by puchasing DVDs . . .

There are very fine and elaborated books on the market which costs around 35-60$ . . . if you buy two or three of them you can even additionally afford an Epson 2400 printer . . . .
"Mastership" (again, what a word) - you can reach by printing and experiences while doing. I doubt anyone can pass-by the long way of gaining experiences and become a master in a crash-course via DVD . .

But maybe i´m wrong and am too conservative . . . ;-)

Sorry for that . . . it´s not my wish to diminish somebody´s efforts to make masterly dvds or to make a living from that.
But 775$ . . . gosh . .

best, Klaus

 

[Alain Briot]

The Printing Mastery Workshop on DVD is priced similarly to my 2 days printing Seminar. The cost is normally $975, which is the cost of the seminar. The $775 price reflects a special offer. The DVD has the same information as my seminar, except you do not need to travel and you can watch each presentation as many times as you like.

 

[nicolas claris]

The DVD has the same information as my seminar, except you do not need to travel and you can watch each presentation as many times as you like.

Sure but one can't shake your hand! ;-)

 

[Asher Kelman]

Georg,

All this is a matter of how you learn and what you feel about Alain's prints. Alain has, in the last 10 years established a loyal following who go to his field trips and workshops.

For those who know and follow his work and buy his prints, they obviously like what they see and go to his course. He and his wife Natalie have established a successful business.

The price he charges is what some people are willing to pay.

Now other people might buy the books and work with an accomplished printer for several sessions and save money. However, there is more than one path.

Value for money is another thing and I cannot judge. For sure, Alain is not trivially involved and pulling this out of thin air. He is dedicated to his work and this is his whole life. Sure he is making money, but that's his right.

I cannot say the price is fair or too high. It is what it is. If you read about Alain, like his prints and his way of teaching and can afford the expense, go for it. Otherwise, there are many other more economical choices.

If you are interested, start by buying one print.

Asher

Note: I have no business relationship with anyone.

 

[Ray West]

Hi Georg,

I haven't bought Alain's dvd, or been on his workshop, but I am certain of one thing, having viewed the sample video, listened to the audio etc. of the samples, that if I wanted to print like Alain, then the dvd is the way I would go. You can tell, from the samples that there is no nonsense, its a step by step approach to get the same results as he does. There are a number of testimonials, a few from some guys in Ireland - I bet you could find them and maybe give them a phone call. Yes, it is maybe a lot of money, but not compared to the cost of your time getting that information, or the cost of materials you may otherwise waste. Sell a couple of decent prints, and its paid for. At the moment, the dollar is not doing too well, so in uk pounds sterling, its almost half the number....

I think, compared to the total amount you will be paying - for printer, papers, matting, software, etc., the dvd price will be soon forgotten.

Other than this, I echo what Asher has said (and in case you're wondering, it's not a question of us moderators sticking together - Alain is French, and I am English... ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Alain Briot]

Ray,

Thank you. Yes, I am sure you can contact the photographers who have purchased the DVD. I have had no negative feedback so far and no returns.

Most people take a month or longer to go through all the materials. There is a wealth of information there.

 

[Alain Briot]

Sure but one can't shake your hand! ;-)

I know... I haven't figured out how to do this on a DVD ;-) !

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Just to clarify something, I did not mean to start a controversy.

As I said, and I agree with Asher, there are many ways to skin a cat, and as Asher pointed out as well, it is about the value for money that I was interested in.

I read all the information and marketing on Alain's site, which takes a while <grins>, however, Ray, there is a difference between Fan-boy testimonials with marketing value, and independant in depth reviews.

Any good review, on any product, concludes on value for money, and frankly, 100% positive feedback triggers the sceptic in me, fortunately.

Klaus, wow, thanks very mich for that generous offer, I certainly will get back to you on that. You may not know this, becuase you are a long established Pro and probably never looked into that, but there are many such offers on training and training materials at even higher costs than what Alain has to offer. -Amazing, isn't it?-

Again, I did not mean to start a controversy, but if you think about it for a second, there is no other way to ask this question, and I hoped there might be people here who purchased it and would be willing to share their thoughts.

Marketing material is simply useless when it comes to an independant review, and that was what I hoped for.

My imperession is that Alain offers a step by step tutorial on his personal way to create prints, and for those who wish to copycat this method, or simply whish to have a look at it, this will be of value.

If this, his experience and approach can be reflected anywhere close to a nearly 1000 Dollar pricetag, this was what I wanted to find out and asked for opinions on the material on offer. That was all.

"Garçon! ....5 more for my friends here please, merci!

 

[Klaus Esser]

""Garçon! ....5 more for my friends here please, merci!"

So is this famous Irish saying?

best, Klaus

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Hehehe, a pint of guiness can diffuse a lot of misunderstandings, this is the famous irish thing in deed. <grins>

 

[Ray West]

Hi Georg,

I read all the information and marketing on Alain's site, which takes a while <grins>, however, Ray, there is a difference between Fan-boy testimonials with marketing value, and independant in depth reviews.

Which is exactly why I said for you to phone the irish guys listed. I didn't bother to read many of the reviews on the site, just noted that it was not all folk in the usa.

It is unlikely that many folk will admit to wasting money - that's how half the business's work today. It is unlikely that anyone here would have bought the dvd, and less likely that they can honestly report how worthwhile they found it, and even less likely they have the same requirements/mind set as you, or the same budget. It is quite likely that folk in the business of printing, have not calculated the time it took them to get to where they are, and unless they have actually prepared a specialist training dvd have underestimated what is involved in doing so.

Maybe it's a bit like buying a rolls royce used to be, if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

I see no controversy here. But, I do not think you will get the answer you want, and probably no chance of the answer you need.

Put it this way - if this stuff was easy, everybody would be doing it.

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Alain Briot]

if this stuff was easy, everybody would be doing it.

Indeed. I actually say exactly that frequently. The fact is that it is not easy, neither is mastering any profession. There is a huge difference between learning HOW to do something and learning WHY to do something. My approach is to teach both, with an increased focus on the why.

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Yeah well, in a forum where +3000 people are registered and where Alain advertises his offers, I would think the chances are not too bad that the one or other might have purchased it and wants to share his views. I am not looking for an irish review in particular btw. <grins>

It is simple Ray, there is an advertisement on this forum for a product, and I just asked who bought it and whether they want to review it, that's all.

May be no one bought it, may be all bought it and no one wants to share his/her views <grins>, who knows, so I just wait and see....

 

[nicolas claris]

and no one wants to share his/her views .

Hi Georg

this is an imossible option within OPF ;-)

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

hehehehe! Excellent!

 

[Ray West]

I thought that you may be able to more easily speak to a guy in the same country. I'm waiting, too, but in the meantime, unless we chat here, the thread will disappear off the edge of the world.

We could do a statistical analysis of the membership, while we wait ;-)

 

[Alain Briot]

Or try other forums such as DP Review, Luminous-Landscape, OutbackPhoto, etc.

 

[Aaron Strasburg]

I haven't bought Alain's printing DVD, but I did take a workshop from him as well as buying a print. Alain in unabashedly an artist in business (refreshing for me) but he also recognizes that providing training in various forms can be lucrative and realistically isn't creating a lot of competition. His prints also include a "master file" these days which is a low resolution PSD (starting after RAW conversion, obviously) showing exactly what was done to the image. You can buy a print master file for considerably less than the DVD as a quarter-step to seeing what he does.

Stringing together a bunch of "ifs" here, if the DVD is like attending the printing workshop and if the printing workshop is like his field workshops then it's probably not a bad deal even though it's rather expensive.

As I recall at least one attendee at the workshop had the DVD and while they were nearly brand new at the time I heard no comments about wanting to return them.

Aaron

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Interesting, thanks Aaron!

 

[Asher Kelman]

I havn't as yet seen the DVD but if I get a chance, I'll try to present an honest review.

In fact I may look at a number of these paths.

Asher

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Very nice, that would be useful in deed.

 

[Matt Suess]

Georg,

I just wanted to let you know that I purchased Alain's DVD when it first came out. There is so much information in it that I have yet to go through everything. From what I understand, there is as much, if not more information contained on the DVD than what is offered at his printing workshop (I've never attended) which explains the cost.

For me, the cost of the DVD was not an issue - I make my living from selling my own prints, and investing in education is something I do regularly and of which has been extremely beneficial for me. I have been working with and printing digital images since Photoshop first came out (have been a full-time photographer for 18 years) yet I still found useful information in the DVD to help continue advancing my own printing.

I hope this info helps. Time permitting I may publish a review of the DVD on my site in the future.

Best,
Matt Suess
http://www.Dramatic-Landscape.com

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Thanks for your opinion Matt!

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Matt,

Your website speaks for itself! A Briot influence for sure!

I appreciate the feedback from someone who has used the DVD.

How much printing did you do beforehand and with what equipment and what has changed?

Thanks for sharing! We need all the instruction we can get! Printers, ink, paer and time are expensive.

Asher

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Btw. did you receive your evaluation copy in the meantime Asher? I know you are busy, but what is your impression at a glance?

@Matt, personally I made up my mind, this is not for me, and I also do not feel this price is anywhere near the realistic workd of value for money, not on any justifiable level, not by any standards, and thanks God there was a downloadable movie clip that I could taste up front, which probides a great deal of insight in the material on offer. <grins> Well, this is my personal opinion.

Your website is testament of your admiration of the Briot-Style, not only in photography, but evidently in layout, marketing, well the whole shebang. Glad it works for you!

Thanks again.

 

[Matt Suess]

Hi Asher,

Thanks for your comments. I have printed my own work since I was 12, in B&W and color darkrooms. Then in the early 90's I was printing on the Kodak dye-sub's - always hated the output from them, then all of the Epson printers, and now the 7800. As for what has changed - one thing is that I have always been critical of my prints, but even more so after the DVD. I am always looking for new ways of doing things, with better quality always the goal. Looking at how another person does things, and Alain's DVD explains exactly how he does his own work, opens up new ideas and thoughts in my own work. Once we stop learning, we stop growing... And yes, time is very expensive. If I can save time by spending money to learn something rather than wait to figure it out myself, then spending the money is cheaper in the long run for me.

Hi Georg,

Thank you as well for your comments. While I wouldn't necessarily think of my own photography as heavily influenced by Alain's work (you can see my earlier editorial work at http://www.mattsuess.com where I always favored high contrast, saturation, etc.) you are correct in that I am heavily influenced in his marketing approach. And why not - the guy's been kinda successful ;-)

Sorry to hear the DVD won't work for you. I am new to the forums - hello all - so I am not familiar with your background in photography or what you might expect to get out of such a DVD. But for me personally, I looked at the purchase as a business decision as I make my living selling prints of my work. If the DVD helps improve my print quality (which it did) it becomes a justifiable expense, as that investment will pay for itself many times over in increased sales and increased prices that I charge for my work. I understand the cost would be prohibitive for some, or even many, and thus can not justify it like I can. Yet I can assure you there is a market for a DVD in that price range, and Alain has been pretty successful in selling it. Probably his main audience is those who would have wanted to go to his printing workshop but couldn't because it was either sold out or they could not travel - now they have an alternative.

Best,
Matt

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Asher,

I am always looking for new ways of doing things, with better quality always the goal. Looking at how another person does things, and Alain's DVD explains exactly how he does his own work, opens up new ideas and thoughts in my own work.

Thanks for sharing your experience. What printer were you using? Can you go though some of the changes you implemented?

As far as the money, if it works for you work, it's worth it! Especially for someone who already knows his stlye and wants more. For others it might be different.

Asher

 

[Matt Suess]

Hi Asher,

I've been using the Epson 7800 pretty much since it came out, although one doesn't need to use an Epson to benefit from the DVD. As for changes implemented - I have a higher degree of quality control. I have learned new and different techniques than what I had been doing for removing the many errors in a digital image that creep up from time to time. Errors/problems that barely show themselves in a small print, but when printed to my 2' x 4' panoramic size these problems stick out like a sore thumb. I do the art show circuit here in the Southwest and see a lot of other photographers work. Many, if not most of these photographers could benefit from this DVD.

There's no mistaking that this DVD is not for everyone. It really comes down to what you want to get out of your printing. To get better at anything in life there is always an investment of time and money. The more time and money invested, the better you become and the greater the rewards - assuming you've invested wisely. For me the most important part of my work is my print - it is what collectors invest in and show in their homes - and the printing process is something that I am continually investing time and money in to further my craft.

I can only say that the DVD was worth the money for me, but I do understand that others may have a hard time justifying it for themselves. One needs to look critically at their own prints, compare it to other photographers work, determine how far they want to push the quality envelope, and decide for themselves.

Best,
Matt

 

[Asher Kelman]

Those who ponder the cost of training, here's some thoughts of mine.

Ask yourself, do I want to spend a some hours or a whole day, one on one with a skilled printer and great trainer, one could go to San Francisco to either Uwe Steinmueller or Jack Flesher. Do you have 2-4 days for a highly organized schedule of training, then Alain’s course, his DVD or Cone Editons in Vermont are alternatives. For sure, $975 is less than $1500!
I have checked Cone Editions workshops. They have 4 days training with lodgings first come basis, at $400-500 per week, approx and the refrigerator is packed with film and Ben & Jerriy's Ice cream!

The 4-day courses are $1500, or 750 for 2 days compared to $975 for Alain's Print Mastery. The difference would be covering the set up amortization of gear, since there are less days and less instances of use to pay for, so that is approximately not unreasonable.

I have received pints only from cone Editions and they have set up the first 50 Giclée printers in America and are certainly at the forefront. However, one has to fly over the Vermont, which if you live in the West Coast of the USA is a drag and expense! Also one may not have 4 days to devote to the workshop.

Now I have not received a print from Alain to review, (I might request one or buy one in the future), but I have heard him speak at the Summit Uwe Steinmueller and Alain hold each Fall in Arizona. Uwe by the way is an excellent teacher of workflow. He knows things backwards. Alain talks on the philosophy of being and artist and what makes a good picture and how to present oneself. He also critiques prints made at the workshop with the printer Epson at the time showed there.

So I can say that the Summit is very much worthwhile. I saw some of the work of other photographers and a few were exceptional.

Furthermore, I have reviewed one of Alain's books, Mastering Landscape Photography and found the writing clear, so simple and useful for someone starting out who wants to go beyond snap shots to the world of making prints that people might want. Although some might call the work simple, it is not simplistic, just easy to read and to understand. Experienced photographers intuitively know much of what's there, Alain still has a few tidbits extra.

In order to know whether or not the $975 DVD is something for you, read his site. Yes, it is very commercial but “so what?” He is in the commerce of earning a good living and promoting himself. That's a given.

If you buy one print, from him or any other print instructor, then you will know if that is what you want to aim for or not. You can visit Art Fairs that appear on village greens; seaside or country resorts or else galleries with some of the fine photographs that you might compete with are shown. Take the purchased, borrowed, gifted or stolen print with you and one you printed yourself. How do they both compare with what you are trying to achieve with your style and intended market.

One has to get past the trainer’s marketing hype and look at this as a pure commercial transaction, just like spending $1400-2500 0on a lens (that would include air fares and expenses).

One has to pay for time and each has to get a profit, since that's how one does business, after all!!

Just my thoughts!

Asher