Michael_Stones
Member
![missper_by_rufusthered-d85vxwz.jpg](/forums/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffc05.deviantart.net%2Ffs71%2Ff%2F2014%2F313%2F8%2F2%2Fmissper_by_rufusthered-d85vxwz.jpg&hash=e8cf43b752f641d970041aa8d22d804b)
A photomontage on the kind of issue I try to educate my students about. The title is police jargon that in this example goes beyond the specifics of an immediate situation.
Regards
Mike
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A photomontage on the kind of issue I try to educate my students about. The title is police jargon that in this example goes beyond the specifics of an immediate situation.
Regards
Mike
![]()
A photomontage on the kind of issue I try to educate my students about. The title is police jargon that in this example goes beyond the specifics of an immediate situation.
Regards
Mike
Maggie Terlecki said:Michael,
Although I applaud your efforts to open the eyes of your students, I find that the photo-montage here really has a lot of technical problems that make the visual not work very well..............
I know it sounds like a lot, but I think it would well be worth the effort to get your message across without our eyes being distracted by what doesn't work. Funny thing, our brains. We don't always know what is wrong, but we are so used to what an outdoor scene would look like under different light conditions that we just know it is wrong which is much different from a studio shot where we simply accept that there are probably several lights and gobos etc., which are modifying the light.
without malice,
Maggie
Michael,
Although I applaud your efforts to open the eyes of your students, I find that the photo-montage here really has a lot of technical problems that make the visual not work very well. I have nothing against photo-montage, I've done a few myself but I think it is not enough to simply put images together and think if they are the right size they automatically work; they don't.
Here you have a very cloudy sky, but when you look at the officers, it is quite apparent that it is quite a sunny day. There is a lack of shadows on the ground which would be quite dark as you can see how heavy the shadows are on the officers and how bright the sun. Also, your man in the wheelchair has the light coming from a completely different direction. There is also an issue about some of the masking but first and foremost, the shot needs to start with the light working correctly.
The light doesn't have to be perfect, you can help it along by flipping the man in the wheelchair so that the light is basically coming in the right direction and then work with either dodge and burning or multiply and screen to make the intensity of brightness and light work better. Once all that is done, perhaps change out the sky for a brighter one. If you intent was to have drama in the sky, use a bright sky with heavy dark storm clouds closing in. That would be a situation where you would have the drama, but that bright light would still be believable. Once that is done, you will need to add deep shadows behind your officers (their shapes will be available to you in your original photos of the officers (simply use the selection of the shapes with a bit of feathering and multiply once or twice (whatever it needs to get the right intensity) and they will look right. Of course, careful masking is extremely important.
I know it sounds like a lot, but I think it would well be worth the effort to get your message across without our eyes being distracted by what doesn't work. Funny thing, our brains. We don't always know what is wrong, but we are so used to what an outdoor scene would look like under different light conditions that we just know it is wrong which is much different from a studio shot where we simply accept that there are probably several lights and gobos etc., which are modifying the light.
without malice,
Maggie
How old are the kids, Michael? If they get the point does it really matter if its visually accurate.
Its good to see teachers still have a sense of humor.
How I remember those days. In between lunch duty, year 9 animals and a stack of reporting and marking teachers somehow need to keep the class fresh and interesting. a quick cut and paste like this might get someone's attention even if its to laugh at the old blokes socks. They are more likely to be distracted from what you are trying to achieve by the developing cleavage of Zoe Smith in the front row or a txt on their iphone
The application of photographs as a teaching tool in classrooms is long standing and effective, in spite of our 'amateurish' attempts.
Well done
Tom
Maggie,
I wanted to get my reply immediately after your post, so your very commendable observations are addressed adjacent to your post. So I've duplicated your post and then here's my comment to your important comments! I wish you were in a station next to my computer and I could have your careful eyes go over my collages for errors too!
Of course, the technical points all appear correct. However, the photomontage, as imperfect as it is, totally got past me. Our brains tend to add what's missing. That's why we see Mary in effervescence on a building . Folk get convinced this is a holy visit and sign!
A bride's mother shows off her daughter's wedding book - I see that the photographer has blown out the exposure of the veil - there's no evidence of the pattern of flowers in most of the veil. However, no one notices it. But for me, it's an obvious fault. Still no one notices.
So while we can recognize serious flaws, most imperfections get past most observers.
Asher
Quite old kids, Tom, 3rd and 4th year undergraduates in Psychology of Aging and Gerontology classes, and maybe a graduate class next year. The title refers to "missing person" in the jargon of our local police, with frequent cases of demented persons who get lost and can't find their way home. The broader meaning I want to get across concerns the loss of former personality that often accompanies such cognitive decline. That leads into a discussion of positives and negatives of strategies used in dementia care. Not a fun topic but one that generates animated exchange of ideas. Thankfully, the students aren't much bothered by artistic limitations in the picture![]()
Cheers, Mike
My experience with undergrads tells me they don't have much more savvy that the 15 year olds. The differences are mainly as a result of more body hair and body mass and little else. An interesting topic no less. Mind you, I have a few tasteless jokes on the subject that might get a laugh.
How many old people does it take to change a light globe?
"Are the lights out?"
Cheers
Tom
Doug,
I really enjoy Michael's picture and the comments on the mechanics appreciating work with imperfect signals. I'd prefer to have Maggie as a retoucher to make things perfect and do it right the first time.
Even Annie Leibowitz relies on retouchers. Saves time but is expensive!
But as you point out, if the overall design is there, we're pretty good at repairing the picture in our brains without realizing it!
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A photomontage on the kind of issue I try to educate my students about. The title is police jargon that in this example goes beyond the specifics of an immediate situation.
I return to this image to make a point about imperfection. The fact that the wheelchair has no shadows sets up an unease and so a dystopia. Maybe that's a good thing for the construction of this picture!
Asher
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The image above that was published <here> is from a study published <here> and has relevance to earlier discussion of the MISSPER picture. The question asked about the image concerns how closely you think the shape resembles a circle. For the sake of simplicity, just answer 'Yes it does' or 'No it doesn't'. Go on then, answer the question before reading on.
The findings from the article indicated that people of liberal political persuasion were more likely to answer YES, whereas those of conservative persuasion were likely to answer NO. They add to a substantial body of knowledge that liberals are less conscientious but more open-minded than conservatives. These trait patterns are enduring features of personality (i.e., cognitive/behavioural propensities) influenced by genetic factors. Early findings that conservatives when children were uneasy about deviations from expected structures are consistent with those of the recent study that they distinguish deviance more acutely.
What has this to do with reactions to MISSPER? Simply that liberal viewers are more blind to imperfections that disturb conservative viewers. Vive la difference!
Cheers, Mike
Well, as an engineer and sort-of scientist, and hopefully a prudent manager of my personal life with Carla, I am naturally "conservative" in the non-political sense. (Although Carla says that sometimes I put too much cinnamon on my oatmeal.)
I try and stay away from "liberal" and "conservative" as simplistic markers of two broad "directions" of political, and politico-social, leanings. Those terms, in that context, have become woefully corrupted, and meaningless, except as epithets. (Like "Yankee" in Texas.)
I much prefer to think of the broad socio-political direction often called "liberal" as progressive.
And thus the opposite would be . . .
Well, you know.
Doug,
We are not talking about your politics, but rather openness to new experience. That is that, I think the psychologists were measuring.
The findings from the article indicated that people of liberal political persuasion were more likely to answer YES, whereas those of conservative persuasion were likely to answer NO.
The findings from the article indicated that people of liberal political persuasion were more likely to answer YES, whereas those of conservative persuasion were likely to answer NO.
Doug,
Apparently the trait that gets measured is also genetic trait too. The psychological test showed evidence of the trait but cannot be used as a reliable and definitive test to identify conservativeness.
So it might or might not be correlated with your own politics!
Doug,
To give some idea of the state of knowledge on the "big" factors describing our personalities, here's a great introduction to the field.
I speculate that in Mike's rope shape test, that "openness [to experiences]" of the "big five" factors is what is really being measured.
However, there is overlap with neuroticism and anyway, this is merely the beginning of discovery of genetic basis for personality.