New "arTec" Sinar Architecture Camera

[Thierry Hagenauer]

Let me some time Asher, I am very busy currently with an Asian distributor meeting today and the next days here in Bangkok.

Cheers,
Thierry

Thierry,

Do you have a picture from the back showing how stitching would be done and setup with the ground glass. So how much can the camera back be moved within the image circle?

Asher

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

Michael,

the shift ways have been calculated very precisely and will be more than enough for all lenses. You are right, before reached the mechanical limit of the shift way, the image circle (optical limit) of the lens will be the issue.

Best regards,
Thierry

right Nicolas,
we look at a very early modell of the arTec.

If there is enough shifting possible, I withdraw my wishlist with the "integrated "focusing rail"

- Shift V +25/-15mm
- Shift H +20/-20mm

Asher, so its 40 mm of shift.... having a 48 x 36 mm- sensor.

Horizontally, that allows a theoretical flatstitch of 36 x 88 mm...

With the wides, (23 mm!) it'll be much less, I suppose, due to touching the image circle of the lens.

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

For those looking for a confirmation, it is now on Sinar's webpage:

http://www.sinarcameras.com/site/index__0-e-2019-50-2158.html

Best regards,
Thierry

 

[Asher Kelman]

Here's a picture of the back of the camera I found:

Photographer not known, likely a Sinar picture, found here.

I like the clean design and the closed eyepiece for composing on the ground glass. I wonder whether there might be a diopter adjustment for those who need vision correction! Still that does not detract form this super new camera. I am looking forward to holding one!

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

It's obvious now, how the stitches are made.

By shifting the back (vs the lens) no °parallax-errors will happen.

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

As you know I am knew to this segment of photography, so let me ask bluntly, am I wrong to think that this is not only a camera predominantly suitable for architecture, but also very much so for landscape photography.

V/H Shift, swing/tilt, sliding back, digital back.... I mean this is just too good to be true, isn't it?

 

[Michael Fontana]

Bear,

yep, off course you can use it for irish landscapes very well ;-)
the shift and image composing on the ground glass beeing the important parth of it.

A competitor is the alpa 12 xy

Basically, it goes in the right direction, as the possibilities are becoming similar again, as with 4/5', in the oly days.

The early back-cams were more studio-orientated and therefore limited for archi-shots on location.

Critical for these types of work will be the lenses as well; a digiback will show the lens quality merciless; even more critical when using a shifted WA. So better don't ask for the price of a Sinaron Digital HR 4,5 / 28 with helical focuser. ;-)


the Sinarons are AFAIK from Rodenstock, today: Linos.

 

[Georg R. Baumann]

Critical for these types of work will be the lenses as well; a digiback will show the lens quality merciless; even more critical when using a shifted WA. So better don't ask for the price of a Sinaron Digital HR 4,5 / 28 EF ;-)

I will post examples of this lense probably in August on the fora here. Yeah, I know the price.

The 28HR was available for the P3 before afaik. The viewfinder is very big and bright in deed! Also, you do not need the mirror module, which makes it lighter. LOLOL, thinking about it, the M together with the 28HR could be described as a "always with you MF".

 

[Michael Fontana]

So ya did order a arTec? :bigeyes:

It somehow builds up on the Sinar Handy 4/5', sleeping here in the cupboard:

The basic construction params are the same (no bellows, helical focus, etc)

ok, some differencies:

the Handy has a one-direction-shift only, the lens moves - and not the back like on the arTec.

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

here a PDF presentation of the whole Sinar arTec, with all details and different views:

Sinar arTec Brochure

Thierry

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

Georg,

you are absolutely right, it is designed to meet all possible requirements.

Best regards,
Thierry

As you know I am knew to this segment of photography, so let me ask bluntly, am I wrong to think that this is not only a camera predominantly suitable for architecture, but also very much so for landscape photography.

V/H Shift, swing/tilt, sliding back, digital back.... I mean this is just too good to be true, isn't it?

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

Beautiful, Michael, that you still have it and in such good condition.

Best regards,
Thierry

It somehow builds up on the Sinar Handy 4/5', sleeping here in the cupboard:

 

[Erie Patsellis]

Wow, I only wish I had the work to justify one. The only architecture work I do is HABS/HAER work and by definition, are b&w archivally processed LF film negatives and fiber base contact prints. (4x5 to 8x10, with 5x7 preferred).

erie

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Well done! The arTec looks like it takes the best features from cameras like the aforementioned Sinar Handy, Alpa 12 XY, and the Linhof Technar and the Cambo Wide DS, and adds the attractions of the sliding back and tilt and swing. I suppose the Handy and the Technar might have had the option of a sliding back, but I don't think any of them have tilt and swing, and 5 degrees is just enough for this sort of camera. I suppose the Gilde 66-17 MST 3D might fit into this class, and has tilts but no swings, but it also has other more esoteric features for panoramic photography.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Well done! The arTec looks like it takes the best features from cameras like the aforementioned Sinar Handy, Alpa 12 XY, and the Linhof Technar and the Cambo Wide DS, and adds the attractions of the sliding back and tilt and swing. I suppose the Handy and the Technar might have had the option of a sliding back, but I don't think any of them have tilt and swing, and 5 degrees is just enough for this sort of camera. I suppose the Gilde 66-17 MST 3D might fit into this class, and has tilts but no swings, but it also has other more esoteric features for panoramic photography.

I have not seen the Sinar Handy, but it look interesting. The lens moving is the most important loss for me! I want to sample the image circle not move it.

I know Rainer Viertlböck has invested years on the perfection of a camera for his work. He's extraordinarily meticulous and I remember one XY camera he had re-machined to his specs! When one travels large distances to a tackle a stunning building complex, the camera should work for that type of work. Having a wonderful digital back is simply not good enough. The exciting thing is that this camera has all the devotion and demands of a perfectionist and well-regarded award winning pro. So this is not just a camera made by technicians and design engineers. The making of a 23mm lens to go with this is
the icing on the cake.

I wonder what the price will be?

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

Edited by Thierry Hagenauer - 03.07.'08
Reason: False Quote of Rainer Viertlböck

Here's what the original, aka LLforum states:

"i could not afford that someone made the things for me
exclusive, so i looked for partners, as i found them in stefan or
in sinar. great partners because they have been very competent
in their field and they have been very open to speak with me.
this is a fantastic because so started an exchange which has led
to real results. much more than i ever expected..... "

Meanwhile Thierry corrected my post into that:
"… I could not afford that someone make these things for me exclusively, so I looked for partners. As I found this in Sinar. Great partners because they have been very competent in their field and they have been very open to discuss with me. This is a fantastic because an exchange of ideas and personal concepts has led to real results! Much more than I ever expected."

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

FYI: the reason of my editing and correction was on Rainer's request.

In the original post were mentions of names and persons, others than "stefan" whom Rainer NEVER wrote, spoke about or mentioned in any of his original posts. This post with those names were copied from a report published on a photo site whose "journalist"had "passed over" his duties, rights and prerogatives by mentioning these names and signing the quote with Rainer's name. In the meantime Rainer has got official apologies from this site, as well as a corrected report, after having complained officially.

Thierry

Here's what the original, aka LLforum states:

"i could not afford that someone made the things for me
exclusive, so i looked for partners, as i found them in stefan or
in sinar. great partners because they have been very competent
in their field and they have been very open to speak with me.
this is a fantastic because so started an exchange which has led
to real results. much more than i ever expected..... "

Meanwhile Thierry corrected my post into that:
"… I could not afford that someone make these things for me exclusively, so I looked for partners. As I found this in Sinar. Great partners because they have been very competent in their field and they have been very open to discuss with me. This is a fantastic because an exchange of ideas and personal concepts has led to real results! Much more than I ever expected."

 

[Michael Fontana]

Thierry,
thanks for sorting that out - I'm aware of the meaning of "Stefan" - reading it without your last statement has been irritating.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Let's let this matter aside now. We have dealt with misunderstandings and we don't ant to create more! Let's get back to the camera.

Essentially I'd like to know how it differs from the competing cameras such as from Alpa, Fotoman and other such cameras for digital backs and architecture or landscape with stitching.

Asher

 

[Michael Fontana]

Asher

you'd need to try it - basically the concept is clear, still it depends a bit on the glass quality.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Asher

you'd need to try it - basically the concept is clear, still it depends a bit on the glass quality.

Michael,

Are there restrictions in using some lenses with particular cameras or are they equal in being able to use the latest digital lenses.

Asher

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

Update

The first serie of 25 Sinar arTec cameras are in production since last week. Shipment of the first units to our distributors should start after Photokina.

Best regards,
Thierry