Quoting an Australian and a French gentleman responding in this this thread, I waited for someone else to provide an answer. But none was forth coming. Either from long lost missionaries, evangelicals, ' straddling the border ' folks or any one else.
I can only guess at one of the reasons; It is a simple question; but a difficult one to answer.
Made more difficult by the very limited vocabulary of the entire current Anglo-Saxon languages. They are so, so very limited.
But to get myself prepared to provide, what I believe and understand as the difference between ' hope and pray '; what do you understand by the English language term ' pray '? We could be talking of different things.
My friend Nicolas considers ' pray ' as implying dependence on ' something ' whose existence has never been proven. A fair enough definition from his pov.
But that ' something's ' has never been disproven either. One cannot say that just because it has not been proven, it cannot be. Tell Galileo..he knew all about it!!
The other contributor is happy to comply if ' praying ' works; And happy to ridicule ' praying ' ( implicit in the response ) if it doesn't ' work ' ( whatever ' work' is meant by him ).
This is a perfect example of a person referred to in my Holy Book as a ......; no matter.
Both these respondents, are incorrect ( let's say incomplete ) from my interpretation of the English Language word ' praying ' as it is understood in my Language. And I am reasonably conversant with the English Language, its vocabulary, grammar, literature and its nuances.
So pray tell me what you understand by the word 'pray '. Surely it cannot be as simple as dependence on something. Dependence for what, when, why, where...when can you have 'hope' to fulfill that role.Does it mean those who pray to something whose existence has never been proven do not
( cannot ) have hope in that same thing.
I need to understand your understanding of ' prayers '. To me saying ' dates ' ( meaning the fruit, produce of the date palm ) would be a person having little knowledge of what he/she really wants. Which ' dates '. From where? When plucked? What taste? Each one has a different name.
A horse is a horse. To me, once again, is an incomplete noun. Said in a Language with limited expressiveness or a definite attribute of something.
So, what is meant by ' pray '.
I eagerly await and welcome any and all responses. Please enlighten us all, especially me.
Fahim,
Your point about language is well taken.
Just say there’s damage to a vase: it could be chipped, cracked, broken, smashed, crushed or pulverized! The word “damage”, alone itself hardly specifies the parameters, that one would hope to discover.
But in general, we have few examples of standard European language in this example, variants of “break” such as, “to cause to break” or “to smash”, using the same word root.
The word “pray”, Fahim, you pointedly used to mean, “pardon me” or “if you don’t mind”, as in “Sir, pray, (i.e., I beg of you), look at this address again!” But we are interested only in the meaning of “pray” as in the “prayers” we offer in a sense of religious devotion and communication to God. That is what has to be defined for us and differentiated from the word “hope”.
One answer comes from a Tom Dinning, a talented shooter but devout cynic who boasts of his “indifference to other folk’s feelings”, and seems to dismiss prayer with relish, ....
.....but I do not know whether or not what he claims is true...... or not!
The other, Nicolas Claris, another outstanding photographer in his own right, is totally tolerant of other folk’s cultural behaviors, .....
...... up to the point where public and private freedoms fought for in France in the name of the equal “citoyen”, might be abridged, threatened, disrespected or intimidated in the slightest degree!
It seems that the understanding of any word such as “pray” or “hope” could be directed by these two very different personal stances that both display to us.
I don’t read minds, so I assume that what they say is the truth of what they really feel.
However for me to describe “pray” and “hope” I will have to rely only on my own education and cultural perspective and limited expressions in languages.
I will think carefully and try to come up with a succinct answer!
Asher