The Head of a cow in a Market and other strong images..and also why I don't eat meat!

[leonardobarreto.com]

This last Thanksgiving I went to Santa Cruz de la Sierra here in Bolivia and then 400km towards the border with Brazil/Paraguay to see the restored missions of the Chiquitania ... anyway I shot just some images since we traveled most of the time by car. This is one and one of a kind since it was an encounter with a carniceria shop where locals get their meat. I asked the driver to let me out of the car and aproached the obviously attracted by the hanging severed head. A woman that works or own the store saw me with the face expression of "Are you going to photograph that?" so I asked her: "It is hot today, no?" obviously stupid question since this is very close to the Amazon and hot/humid by default, and... she wanted to talk about my photography interest in the hanging head, but my question distracted her and let me go on with my work... this is the resulting image and ... I wanted to post it here at the layback cafe since it is not part of series or anything ...

Image © Leonardo Barreto 2007-2008 : All rights reserved​

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Could be another animal

I travel at least once a year and have been going to the various markets when I travel. In Greece, you'd see lamb, in Russia, we saw beef/cows, in France it was Rabbit (Lapin) and in Spain we saw Pigs. Somewhere I saw veal too. Poland had chickens I think. Every market has some form of slaugtered animal. It could make someone a vegetarian (not me though - my family is in the wholesale meat business - my Dad and Grandfather owned several packing houses - I was not allowed inside because it was too graphic)

 

[Asher Kelman]

This last Thanksgiving I went to Santa Cruz de la Sierra here in Bolivia and then 400km towards the border with Brazil/Paraguay to see the restored missions of the Chiquitania ... anyway I shot just some images since we traveled most of the time by car. This is one and one of a kind since it was an encounter with a carniceria shop where locals get their meat. I asked the driver to let me out of the car and aproached the obviously attracted by the hanging severed head. A woman that works or own the store saw me with the face expression of "Are you going to photograph that?" so I asked her: "It is hot today, no?" obviously stupid question since this is very close to the Amazon and hot/humid by default, and... she wanted to talk about my photography interest in the hanging head, but my question distracted her and let me go on with my work... this is the resulting image and ... I wanted to post it here at the layback cafe since it is not part of series or anything ...

Image © Leonardo Barreto 2007-2008 : All rights reserved​

Leonardo,

This is an amazingly stark picture. This shows how grizzly sights can be normal. The potential of this is of course frightening but is a better mirror of man than I've seen in a long time. I'm impressed by the picture and shocked and a little sick to my stomach but this, is after all what we do!

Good work! Sad, stark but good work!

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

and look at the kid! (the one with white shirt)

 

[Bill Miller]

Nice capture . You have shown what most viewers are missing. The head appears to be the Market's way of advertising 'fresh meat'.

Leonardo,

I'm impressed by the picture and shocked and a little sick to my stomach but this, is after all what we do!

Good work! Sad, stark but good work!

Asher

Asher does this also make you sick to your stomach or make your mouth water??

Of all people I am suprised at your weak stomach especially considering your past occupation. As I mentioned above, it is assurance to the customer that 'fresh meat' is available.

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

Good Enouhh to eat

That looks good enough to eat...

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

The truth is that as a kid I never liked meet, and when I grew up I discovered that I don't have to eat it if I don't like it. The added value is that I weigh the same 160 exactly for at least the last 6 years. Some even say that meat is as bad as cigarettes, but I'm not going to try to interfere with other people's eating habit ... but when you think about it, is it allowed? after all, look where we are: Layback Cafe... I'm glad that I posted here.

Seriously, I think that the version of the image got too dark, but it may just be my PowerBook's monitor... how is your coffee? LOL

Nice capture . You have shown what most viewers are missing. The head appears to be the Market's way of advertising 'fresh meat'.



Asher does this also make you sick to your stomach or make your mouth water??

Of all people I am suprised at your weak stomach especially considering your past occupation. As I mentioned above, it is assurance to the customer that 'fresh meat' is available.

 

[Jim Galli]

It's a good picture but certainly not disturbing to me or the kid looking at it. She's thinking 'I wish that was a piñata and she wishes it was her turn at bat. Honestly, except for the last 100 years in the main city's of the USA this scene could be duplicated and not thought twice about. I'm disturbed that we're disturbed. We've been eating cows for 7,000 years. So what.

Whoopee ti yi yo, Git along, little dogies,
It's your misfortune and none of my own........

 

[Bill Miller]

It's a good picture but certainly not disturbing to me or the kid looking at it. She's thinking 'I wish that was a piñata and she wishes it was her turn at bat. Honestly, except for the last 100 years in the main city's of the USA this scene could be duplicated and not thought twice about. I'm disturbed that we're disturbed. We've been eating cows for 7,000 years. So what.

Whoopee ti yi yo, Git along, little dogies,
It's your misfortune and none of my own........

Jim and its a Doctor that is disturbed, maybe he's getting old and needs some daily Malox!

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

..."but certainly not disturbing to me or the kid looking at it." {Jim}

Jim, thank you for: "It's a good picture", but, it is the head of an animal hanging out there. Buy, yes, we all have different ideas of what disturbs us, as you said, the kid looking ... she looks like a doctor observing at a patient that has a rod coming in one side of head and out in the other: "hmm interesting".. but I never got used to it. When working as a PJ in the Contra/Sandinista war in Nicaragua we used to walk all day and at the end an officer would say to his lieutenant: "Do you see that cow? get it hear and "peal it". Yes, peal it like a banana. And that is exactly what they did, young soldiers -soldiers are always young no?- would kill the cow with a knife peal it, dismember and take the meet to all the men that where holding a perimeter. For officers and PJ's they left "the best parts", like: liver, tong, brains, hart, etc. They just put all this to the fire, eat some and put it in their backpacks to eat the next day since we walked from 6am to 6pm with a half hour stop at noon... no time for pealing more cows...

I remember that I looked at the saddest solider in the indian line and said to him: "pst, do you want some cow's hart?" and see how his face illuminated on the spot. Mine did when I found a tree full of oranges or later when we could find some rice and beans, some avocado and roasted corn.

I think that killing other animals, --and other young soldiers-- is and isn't natural in us, or human. We kill, we eat... or we don't we just roast the corn...

 

[Jim Galli]

It's OK to eat animals. Humans are different. This is a tough concept these days.

 

[fahim mohammed]

If we had not started eating the animals, with vengence, long time ago there would be very few of
us and a lot more ferocious looking of them!

Some animals are made for eating..munch, munch.

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

fahim, you have a point there ... LOL if we don't eat them they will... but that was then, now, eating them is killing some of us with cholesterol and heart desease...

 

[Ivan Garcia]

fahim, you have a point there ... LOL if we don't eat them they will... but that was then, now, eating them is killing some of us with cholesterol and heart desease...

Look on the bright side... More animals will survive as we eat our way to death.

 

[Michael_Stones]

Leonardo, you're a good man. I don't know you but like you because you think and see beneath the surface of cultural convention. And you take photographs (if this one is representative of your work) that challenges such biases. The best photographic artists in history did that (Arbus and Mapplethorpe, to name just two examples). An issue the photograph raises is whether a child raised in a culture that is oblivious to the dignity of other life forms can grow up other than oblivious to the dignity of human culture in forms different from his or her own. Your image highlights this dilemma.
Yours in admiration,
Mike

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Michael, thank you very much for your remarks, I never thoght I would get such good words when I usede the new "Critique Desired:" blue mark.

Unfortunately I'm not as consistent as Arbus and Mapplethorpe (two of my favorits), as people who know me here can corraborate, I am all over the photography field ... and not focused as consecuence.

One thing is very accurate when you say "you think and see beneath the surface of cultural convention." The way may wife put it is: you think like a Macintosh... diferent."

I want to post here -It is too late to open a new post, and I'm disrupting, again, Asher's posting order, an image from The New York Times because it is probably one of the most intriguing images I have seen latetly on line...

Image redirected from The New York Times for non commercial art discussion
www.nytimes.com
Image credit: Moises Saman for The New York Times

 

[Michael_Stones]

One thing is very accurate when you say "you think and see beneath the surface of cultural convention." The way may wife put it is: you think like a Macintosh... diferent."

That's a good analogy your wife drew in more ways than one. A Mac is less susceptible to viruses that PC owners have to guard against. If our brains are like computers, a Mac-brain is less likely to be infected by virus-like ideas that PC owners take for granted because they are so commonplace. I think Asher called such ideas 'memes' in long-ago thread.

A related thought that came to mind when viewing your meat-shop image is that the cow's head is a form of art in the service of advertising fresh meat. The sculptor wife of a good friend caused international outrage many years ago by carving her design from a side of beef rather than a block of stone. The beef had no preservatives, with the sculpture left to rot in the gallery that displayed it. It was in Vancouver, I think. Demonstrations and condemnation quickly followed. I'm not sure about the point she was trying to make - maybe something about art as ephemeral, but I could be wrong. Anyway, it gave her fame that lasted well beyond Andy Warhol's 15 minutes. The child in your photo has a expression not unlike that of many people when viewing art. I doubt that the adults gave the cow's head sculpture a second glance.

The crashed truck photo is intriguing. What's the story behind it?
Cheers
Mike

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Damien Hirsh?

All images of work by Damien Hirsh

 

[Jim Galli]

Leonardo, your image continues to cause discussion. Today at lunch I described it to my team leader here at work who is also a small Nevada rancher. He said he was visiting a neighbors ranch recently. The neighbor had a cow hanging from the bucket of his backhoe and as he was busily cutting it in half with a chain saw, my friend asked his little girls 4 and 6 years old what they thought of the sight. 4 year old Jett looked at him and matter of factly stated "I'm gonna eat that cow!" We both laughed and agreed that Jett is going to grow up and be just fine. Although she may die in her 90's of heart disease.

 

[Michael_Stones]

Leonardo, your image continues to cause discussion. Today at lunch I described it to my team leader here at work who is also a small Nevada rancher. He said he was visiting a neighbors ranch recently. The neighbor had a cow hanging from the bucket of his backhoe and as he was busily cutting it in half with a chain saw, my friend asked his little girls 4 and 6 years old what they thought of the sight. 4 year old Jett looked at him and matter of factly stated "I'm gonna eat that cow!" We both laughed and agreed that Jett is going to grow up and be just fine. Although she may die in her 90's of heart disease.

A famous poem by Phillip Larkin follows. The other side of the coin, eh!
Cheers
Mike

Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse
They f**k you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were f**ked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

p.s. Larkin's cheerful original had the f*** word in full; this site's software filter won't allow it.

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

it IS interesting to see what a photo of body-less cow head does in THE LAYBACK CAFE... keep it coming and lets see where we get...

Since the post has the (a bit strong) as caution we can continue with strong images.

All Images © Leonardo Barreto 2007-2008 : All rights reserved

This is a poem by Salomon de la Selva, a classic Nicaraguan poet that writes about his experience in IWW Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomón_de_la_Selva

~ La bala ~ - The bullet -

La bala que me hiera The bullet that wounds me
será bala con alma. will be a bullet with soul.
El alma de esa bala The soul of that bullet
será como sería would be like it would
la canción de una rosa the song of a rose
si las flores cantaran if flowers could sing
o el olor de un topacio or the smell of topaz
si las piedras olieran, if stones would smell
o la piel de una música or the skin of a song
si nos fuese posible if we could
tocar a las canciones touch songs
desnudas con las manos. naked with our hands.
Si me hiere el cerebro If it wounds my brain
me dirá: yo buscaba it would say: I searched
sondear tu pensamiento. to probe your thought .
Y si me hiere el pecho And if it wounds my chest
me dirá: (Yo quería it will say: (I wanted to
decirte que te quiero!) tell you that I love you !)

Translation by me... that's why...

 

[Asher Kelman]

Si me hiere el cerebro If it wounds my brain
me dirá: yo buscaba it would say: I searched
sondear tu pensamiento. to probe your thought .
Y si me hiere el pecho And if it wounds my chest
me dirá: (Yo quería it will say: (I wanted to
decirte que te quiero!) tell you that I love you !)

Translation by me... that's why...
__________________
LeonardoBarreto.com
Leonardo Barreto alamy

This moved me very much as does the picture of the fallen comrade!

Asher

 

[Ivan Garcia]

That's a good analogy your wife drew in more ways than one. A Mac is less susceptible to viruses that PC owners have to guard against. If our brains are like computers, a Mac-brain is less likely to be infected by virus-like ideas that PC owners take for granted because they are so commonplace. I think Asher called such ideas 'memes' in long-ago thread.

A related thought that came to mind when viewing your meat-shop image is that the cow's head is a form of art in the service of advertising fresh meat. The sculptor wife of a good friend caused international outrage many years ago by carving her design from a side of beef rather than a block of stone. The beef had no preservatives, with the sculpture left to rot in the gallery that displayed it. It was in Vancouver, I think. Demonstrations and condemnation quickly followed. I'm not sure about the point she was trying to make - maybe something about art as ephemeral, but I could be wrong. Anyway, it gave her fame that lasted well beyond Andy Warhol's 15 minutes. The child in your photo has a expression not unlike that of many people when viewing art. I doubt that the adults gave the cow's head sculpture a second glance.

The crashed truck photo is intriguing. What's the story behind it?
Cheers
Mike

I don't think I am happy with your PC owners analogy.
To suggest PC owners have a lesser brain is insulting an unacceptable.
I let you know, I've been using a PC for some 20 years. I am still waiting for the day my PC gets infected by viruses. Likewise, I have a very "virus" resistant brain, which successfully fights any attempts at brain washing or foreign influences.

Perhaps Mr stones, your Mac-like brain has been infected... I suggest a full system scan with a good quality antivirus.
Leonardo.
Your image is a wonderful portal in to a different culture. Well done sir.

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Asher, the poem I kenew from when I was in school, and always intriged me, so I'm glad that I could find it in the internet and re-read it. I am finshing a book on a little known war that happened in the 1930's here with Bolivia and Paraguay. It was a war even more pointless than most wars, but that reminded me of the war that I witnesed.

When I took that image other 6 young soldiers,just in the trenches where I was, found the bullet that wanted to tell them something... and now it is so far away in time -1983- that it seams even more pointless than it felt at the time. They where defending a revolution that now has not just fracased, but was betrayed by the so colled leaders.... in other words, same old story...

 

[Jim Galli]

I can only interpret this one way. Apparently the folks at this forum think people who eat animals are f**ked up. If that is actually the case I must be in the wrong place. See you. Carry on with your animal worship.

A famous poem by Phillip Larkin follows. The other side of the coin, eh!
Cheers
Mike

Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse
They f**k you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were f**ked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

p.s. Larkin's cheerful original had the f*** word in full; this site's software filter won't allow it.

 

[Ivan Garcia]

I can only interpret this one way. Apparently the folks at this forum think people who eat animals are f**ked up. If that is actually the case I must be in the wrong place. See you. Carry on with your animal worship.

I beg your pardon?
Perhaps you may like to rephrase that as Some members of these forums....
I happen to eat meat, not only do I like how it tastes, my body needs the vitamins, minerals and proteins it provides it with.
Having said that , I am a man who respects other peoples choices. After all, we only get to live once (that we can remember). So long as you don't interfere with my own choices...live it the way you want it...if some of you don't want to eat meat, chomp on a carrot to your heart's content... just don't try to stop me from eating my stake.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Strong Images give strong reactions! No surprise!

I can only interpret this one way. Apparently the folks at this forum think people who eat animals are f**ked up. If that is actually the case I must be in the wrong place. See you. Carry on with your animal worship.

Hi Jim,

You've got it wrong! I look at this way.

we can continue with strong images.

All Images © Leonardo Barreto 2007-2008 : All rights reserved

Leonardo is embedded in the war with the men fighting on the edge of life. He carries his camera and the weekly-allotted film, (the commander knows he’ll shoot everything he gets and needs to ration the supply they carry). On his shoulder, he also has a gun, always, just for survival. That's how it is. If not for the gun, in a battle, the newspaperman would die too!

The cow? They all ate. We are, as I always say hunters. This thread merely shows that! Most of us here eat meat and chicken and thrive! For meat eaters, it's hard to see we are in fact what we are. Leonardo only brought the truth of that.

Some folk in every forum might be any ethnicity and we accept that. We delight if someone celebrates Ramadan, Hannukah or Christmas or even if he shoots with a 30 year old Pentax Spotmatic and just one Super multicoated Takumar lens! So here we have such a few posters who regret that we kill each other and maybe, a big "maybe", animals too. So please don't take umbrage at Leonardo's sensitivity! Anyway, I like the fact that he makes great B&W pictures and you do too!

Asher

 

[Ivan Garcia]

Hi Jim,

You've got it wrong! I look at this way.

All Images © Leonardo Barreto 2007-2008 : All rights reserved

Leonardo is embedded in the war with the men fighting on the edge of life. He carries his camera and the weekly-allotted film, (the commander knows he’ll shoot everything he gets and needs to ration the supply they carry). On his shoulder, he also has a gun, always, just for survival. That's how it is. If not for the gun, in a battle, the newspaperman would die too!

The cow? They all ate. We are, as I always say hunters. This thread merely shows that! Most of us here eat meat and chicken and thrive! For meat eaters, it's hard to see we are in fact what we are. Leonardo only brought the truth of that.

Some folk in every forum might be any ethnicity and we accept that. We delight if someone celebrates Ramadan, Hannukah or Christmas or even if he shoots with a Pentax Spotmatic withh just one Super multicoated Takumar lens! So here we have just a few people who regret that we kill each other and maybe, a big "maybe", animals too. So don't take umbrage at Leonardo's sensitivity! Anyway, I like the fact that he makes great B&W pictures and you do too!

Asher

Asher.
What seems to be a shame, is the way some folk have turned a critique desired image post, in to an attack against meat eaters.
The post by Mr Stones suggesting Mac users and vegetarians are somewhat superior to PC users/meat eaters is, to put it mildly, offensive.
I also take offence in the way Mr Barreto has hinted at meat eaters being murderous soulless beings by uploading an image and a poem of war within this post, as if that is relevant to the original concept.
I am seriously concerned at the way some posts are finding their way out of the appropriate forums . If you need to add the warning "a bit strong" to your post, or you are going to make a political statement, then it should not be posted outside the provocative thoughts and images forum.
My 2 cents worth.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi Ivan,

I didn't read Michael Stones comments as yet. I will, but allowing for that, it's rather silly. I don't think Leonardo considers us murderous for eating meat. I was with him shooting in New York and he never objected to my own diet! Not in the slightest. He is painting a picture of man as a carnivore, not judging anyone else.

A sheep could not carry a rifle not kill another ungulate! We can. Leonardo is not on any campaign. You are mistaken. He is merely reporting and maybe opinionated but not campaigning.

He does not, TTBOMK, make any point that we are soulless for eating meat! It's a mistake. Anyway, it's good to photograph a variety of subjects and if people are stirred up, so much the better. It will not change my enjoying chicken, fish, lamb, venison, quail or other meat every single day. I'm interested in the photograph and the fact that we can imprint on it ideas from out brains. That's what's really impressive and what this is about!

So lets enjoy the powerful photograph, whether its war or a homeless person sitting on a bench in New York or a portrait by a window of a girl in a café you just smiled at.

Asher

You are correct about the forum placement,

 

[Asher Kelman]

Leonardo, your image continues to cause discussion. Today at lunch I described it to my team leader here at work who is also a small Nevada rancher. He said he was visiting a neighbors ranch recently. The neighbor had a cow hanging from the bucket of his backhoe and as he was busily cutting it in half with a chain saw, my friend asked his little girls 4 and 6 years old what they thought of the sight. 4 year old Jett looked at him and matter of factly stated "I'm gonna eat that cow!" We both laughed and agreed that Jett is going to grow up and be just fine. Although she may die in her 90's of heart disease.

Jim,

This is a healthy balance to what is shown. Same with Bill's picture of that generous juicy thick steak! You demonstrate, as Leonardo, just where our food comes from and not for one moment does it upset me. I know both sides of an argument and most all of us enjoy our red meat, when we get the chance.

I have called the cows in from the pasture at 5 am for milking and watched my dad deftly cut the throat of chickens for the holidays and we plucked the feathers, a hard job for a kid. Most people however, see food just as something in a package from the supermarket. Most have never been on a farm, less visiting a butcher!

So this does open the eyes for people and gives a strong reaction, as here! However, they'd likely not do well at childbirth either! Think of this matter as a sort of digital-film gap in experience. Most folk think photography is about megapixels. I think about a mixed diet of film and pixels too. Come to my house you'll have no doubt about my love of meat, real film and respect the painful joy of each newborn. I now have two new arrivals. Life is like that. Pain and pleasure.

Asher