We post our own pics but won't comment on everyone elses! Why?

[Asher Kelman]

Yet another picture of my son playing. I called his name for this picture.
BW conversion via chanels.
hope you guys like it.

Wow 38 views and no comments... I'll get my coat then....

42 views and I'm back from my Leica walk, LOL! No I cry!

We have many people looking at our images. We don't as a group have good enough sense to respond to other's pictures. Why?

Reluctance to say the wrong thing: rubbish. Say what you feel. You like it you dont, there's a learning point. Read my responses. I admit not all perfect. I have made mistakes I'm sorry for but I know people understand that.

We must treasure and celebrate each others pivtures and share the experience by giving feedback.

Who will respond if you didn't aknowedge their picture.

I will work very hard to get a new way of posting the images so we can have an east gallery access.

Anyone who wants to help me let me know. I have this as the highest priority.

Go through each of these pictures and how do you react:

feelings, thoughts impact. What do you think of the colors, tones, textures, subject and does it move you?

You do not need a degree in comparitive art to do this, just eyes, a heart and a soul!

This is what we are about. Our reactions helps the photographer learn the extent to which his/her ideas are received and some feedback.

This requires a minimal of effort. Just a pithy to the point comment is helpful.

I return to a thread to find no answers but if I have already posted, then I don't want to see my name again! This is a community ans we can't just post our own pictures and merely look at everyone leses!!! So I am committed to makeing the interferface easier. In the meantime, please look for hte new pictures and add your comments, so your own pictures will get the feedback you value too.

We have TONS OF GOOD MANNERS mayvbe too much so people are scared to post comments on pictures, Is that the issue or jusr leaving the risk or extra 10 seconds to someone else.

On the Ball posted by Frank Piechorowski Oct 3rd 2006 53 views and not a single response. This is a tragedy and disappointment since this is well composed, interesting, personal and worthy of discussion. By not doing so we are not respecting this and other contributions like this!

I've just put together a brief list of some of the unanswered posts that caught my eye in the past few minutes:

Progression - Growing up Nov. 30th 2006 by Jon Austin, 34 views, no replies

"Jesse the Hat" - actor's headshot Nov. 28th 2006 by John Maio, 57 looks, 3 replies just me!

Daddy's Eyes Posted by Carlos Garcia, 53 looks, replies by Nill Toulme and myself.

Portrait of my niece. Posted by Jeff Mims, Nov 22 80 views, 2 replies!

Elderly Aunt, posted Nov. 13th by Stuart Rae 137 views, 9 repies

Remembering posted Nov 13th 61 views 1 reply

Germaine an Actors Headshot 47 Views, zero posts!

Take 2 51 views, 0 posts

From Russia with Attitude 176 views, I alone posted!

I myself posted as a CHALLENGE a lovely girl on Hollywood blvd Nov 30th Angel-inWaiting Hollywood Blvd, Hollywood California 61 views, just one response!

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

Yes I do agree with you Asher, we all need to find some time to make comments when posters ask for, however to do so in the right way, one need to have some time to look and think before posting...
And to have some feelings about the pic!
I'll try my best and invite others to do so, come on guys, get your feelings posted!

 

[Ivan Garcia]

Thank you for pointing that out Asher.
I agree, we should post our comments on other contributing member’s pictures, and perhaps, I have been somewhat selfish in my expectations for comments on my own pictures.
I am, as you all know, busy preparing my portfolio for a place in university , these places are few, and highly competed upon, so I have been pressed to find time, not just to write a nice note (or not so nice one) but for my family too.
I shall try to contribute more.
Kind regards
Ivan

 

[Ray West]

What do you expect?

Well, if comments are asked for, and I can find something worth saying, then I will sometimes comment. However, many folk just post an image, I've no idea what they want in response, if anything. So, if you want replies, ask a question. If you need a hand with PP, then ask. If you post a picture of 'the apple of your eye', then other folks eyes and apples are different, and they often won't comment 'cos there is nothing of interest to comment on, or sometimes the truth hurts.

If you want the 'great shot comments', then go to fm or some other forum. If you want help in making the great shots, then stick around here.

Also, at any one time, there are only a few registered members viewing, and two or three times as many guests, so in reality, forty viewres, maybe ten of whome could have commented, but of those, say only one or two into portaiture, so really, no bad comments is quite good. ;-)

Just my opinion, worth its weight in electrons,

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Asher,

you've touched the most painful subject of all the photography forums I ever visited: lack of the feedback. Well, what can I say - it's in the nature of things. We all do have limited metal/perceptional bandwidth, some have more, some have less. Each of us, who's been exposed to the Internet and photography related part of it long enough, know one simple truth: one physically cannot participate in every thread, whether it's good or bad. It's a question of the aforementioned bandwidth, not a character.

I usually do not comment on the mediocre or even average pictures from the people I don't have a solid personal rapport. The lack of the comment *IS* a feedback, where one's likes it or not.

Once I know a person can take a flack, I may start saying something. However, the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the published content is a rubbish (including my own, guilty as charged). I don't want to look like a total asshole constantly saying that Mr.A has no idea of what the exposure control is, Mrs.B should learn the basics of the post-processing and Mr.C should be not allowed to touch the camera at all.

Yes, I may miss a good shot, too. Well, isn't it what the whole "being known" thing is about? In my world, there are just a handful of guys whom I know being a) great quality photogs b) lot of fun 3) can take the comments constructively without freaking out. In most cases all I can say is "wow". But is they make a mistake - I know they will have no problem with me pointing it out.

You may argue that the other people would not mind if I applied this pattern to theirs pictures, too. Well, remember the bandwidth? Mine is rather narrow. If I have two minutes to browse and I see two new entries, one entry from the person whose skills I know and generally like AND another entry from a total stranger - guess where will I spend those two minutes... ;-)

However, sometimes I have more time, and the only new entry can be from that total stranger. I may check it out. Depending on the picture I may even say something. The further would be up to that person. Should we "click" - well, this person may hit my personal roster, his/her "viewing" rank will go up and I start spending more time looking for his/her pictures specifically.

The moral of the story: do not rely on the comments or on the lack of thereof. Do what you think is right. Waiting for comments is akin to waiting for the rain - both actions are pretty much useless. If you do things right, they will come.

HTH

 

[Ivan Garcia]

Hi Ray.
I am sure you have your reasons to assume I am looking for the “Nice shot” comment.
However, I don’t (unless the shot deserves it).
I was looking for reactions from people outside of my immediate circle of friends and family, so that I could judge whether to include that particular shot in my portfolio or not.
Family and friends are bias on their opinions, as far as they are concerned all of my shots are wonderful (although I know better), so, it is only through my peers that I can decide what shots have real impact and which do not.
But, you are right, in order to get those reactions, I should have posted the question.
Kind regards
Ivan

 

[Ray West]

Hi Ivan,

I had no idea why you posted the photo, in all honesty, since you never said anything when you posted it originally, and I never looked again. I will now have another look, and give my personal opinion, if there is a request to do so on that thread.

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Tom Henkel]

A couple comments....

Asher, you raise some good points. I have to confess I am guilty of not really taking the time to comment on other peoples' images. Time is always an issue, but also I think I am still struggliing to understand the proper protocol for participating in this site.

I won't speak for others, but for me the civility and helpful tone of this site is a true relief compared to some other forums. It would be a shame to see that disrupted if people start posting harsh attacks on images. At the same time I personally dislike the "cheerleader" sites where blurry cat pictures get 100 "great shot" replies.

It might help if you and the moderators would set the tone for appropriate commentary on posted photos. I think some solid leadership examples of commentary would help everyone understand what is expected.

From a personal stanpoint the images I have posted to date have been things that I liked and wanted to share. I wasn't really asking a specific question, but would have welcomed any commentary (pro or con). As Nikolai said, I'm not sure I have the time or energy to play the mate rating game -- in order to get a high volume of responses on my images I have to comment (preferably positively) on many, many images. I tend to comment on the images that intrigue me in some way. I guess that's what I expect in return -- if someone is intrigued by my image, I welcome any input. I'd much rather have quality input from people I respect than a large number of responses.

Tom

 

[Diane Fields]

I haven't shared any images here nor have I asked for critique--I truthfully rarely post images on any forum so that's not a bit unusual--I spent well over 20+ years working within a critique type situation jurying in a very competitive atmosphere (textile artist in high end shows) and find myself having made the decision to not get back into that situation at this point in my life.

I guess I'm as lax as others in doing critique, but when I click on new posts---I have a tendency to read the technique posts first (gear last) and have gotten the impression that most of the images posted have been more for sharing than critique so I've neglected doing anything. I'll try to do better (hanging my head LOL). I also tend to move through the forum rather quickly in the morning--read deeper later in the evening when I'm less prone to do a long post.

Diane

 

[Jeff O'Neil]

As someone realtively new to the critical world of photography I'd like to make a few suggestions.

First, in the initial posting header include C&C comments and critisism. Then others will know you want opinions on the particular photo.

Second, as I often do post to the entry level forum first if you are looking for help. I took a photo from a memorial site that I'm sure had many members here wondering who the chucklehead was that sold me a camera! But it all worked out in the end and the shots were not bad for my skill level. By posting there I expect that the comments will be more helpful than critical. Eventually I'll move on to asking for critique's when I feel the shot is one of my better ones. I haven't taken the shot I want critiqued yet, but I know it's itching to be taken!

I will add, it's rather daunting asking this group for a critique. So when you know it's a new member or don't know the member be gentle or ask them in a PM what their skill level is? Right now I now if everyone opened up with full barrels my first reaction mught be to sell the gear! (Those who raised their hand..be quiet!)

Jeff

 

[Joe Russo]

Feedback to folks posting their photographs does not have to be a negative thing. You are simply giving your impressions and opinions on that image. What do you like, what do you not like. If you were taking the shot, is there any thing you would have done differently? Maybe you see something that 'violates' one of the sacred rules - not on a third, horizon dead center, etc., etc. It's possible that the person intended it to be that way. Why not ask the poster if it was intentional?

I agree with Ray when he suggests that if a poster wants C&C then ask for it. An old phrase comes to mind - "If you don't ask, you don't get!" But I think the poster should provided a little information on the image as well to help provide context to folks so that they can give helpful feedback to the photographer. Were you trying something new? What appealed to you in this image?

I've posted pictures on other forums and got the 'Great Shot!', 'Print it big and hang it proudly!' and while comments like that are always nice to hear they don't contribute much to my growth as a photographer. I was pleased when I posted a photograph here and a number of folks here took the time to give me their honest thoughts and opinions on the image. I may agree or disagree with them but that's not the point. Each of us 'sees' photographs differently and what appeals to one person may do absolutely nothing for someone else.

Someone suggested that asking for a critique is a bit daunting. I'll be the first to agree with that. Especially for someone who is doing this more as a hobby than a profession. But from what I've seen in this group no one has anything to be concerned about. The comments that I've read have always been presented in a civil and polite manner. What better place to start developing that 'thick skin?'

So....my goal is try and provide more feedback to folks posting their images. For the most part it will be what I like and what I don't like.

 

[Nikolai Sklobovsky]

Well, for someone longing for the honest, no hold bar critique, here's what has been done in another photography forum I visit frequently (see dgrin in my sig). There is a section called "The Whipping Post". A person can only post one image once a week. Technically you can post anything, including 10,000th picture of your cat, but the idea is that you worked really hard on that image, consider it the best you can come out with given your current level of photo and processing skills and wondering if it can be improved in any way.
While posting in that WP thread does not guarantee immediate response (or any at all, if it's aforementioned cat portrait), since the the influx is so much thinner compared to the other postings (remember: no more than one image per person per week), other people can usually find time to give such an image a serious thought and serious critique.

I must say, this WP thread is not for the weak-hearted. If you post there the chances are you will get whipped, and whipped badly.
If you can take it - great. If not - well, there is always a Pet's Corner...

Asher, if you want to create something like that here at OPF - I can help with modding

 

[Joe Russo]

I found this document that you may find helpful when critiquing a photograph.

 

[Jeff O'Neil]

I have a lot of trouble with the word critic. As in TV critic, film critic etc.

They have to FIND something wrong with the product no matter what, it's what they do.

I have seen some insultingly biting comments in forums that were not justified at all simply because someone asked for comments.

The nature of the web makes people feel comfortable enough to shoot away at will!

I am hoping that in this web forum that will not happen. I am here to learn not be shot down. I don't expect to be patted on the back for every photo but it's the "tone" of the feedback that matters.

I hope those of you with so much to share keep that in mind.

Jeff

 

[Asher Kelman]

I have read all the comments with great care.

I find a lot of deja vu since we agreed previously solutions and etiquette.

We have a section for Retouch, if you post there, that's what you are asking for.

If you post in Photography as Art, again you are asking at least for it's appreciation as art.

Post in Layback cafe is for fun, "Look at me doing this!"

However please Always give some background to the image and a framework of why you are posting and what is expected. Say don't edit, if that would upset you!

Don't go beyond what is true. Don't flatter. Only post on what interests you. However, if people get zero responses, then look at the image, maybe it is something that you have an interest in but were leaving to someone else.


We're a community, after all. We want to help each other (not give empty and hollow praise).

I try to give honest feeling and impressions and that has recently gotten me a rebuke. Still, I feel that we have to have mistakes. If not, we're not doing anything of consequence.

At least, if you do landscape, make a point of looking out for landscape pictures to give pointers. After all, this is what interests you.

There was a suggestion for people stating what their level was. That would help with responses.

I'm going to glean from these comments ideas for new design for dealing with images.

If people post in running threads, such as the ongoing one's in sports, and wildlife, then the post is unlikely to be missed.

For sure, I take very seriously that people who post should get the feedback they seek. We just want to stress that is everyone's responsibility and benefit to contribute, as long as they don't praise falsely or destroy.

Asher

 

[Michael Brown]

I also will try to get in here and mix it up with you guys a bit more than I have, and maybe to do some critiquing.
(Have been really busy!)

I will admit that for 3 years, I was the moderator of the Flora/Macro forum over at NatureScapes.Net., and I stepped down because of getting a lot of assignments to do, and getting a severe case of "critiquing burnout" in the forums.
It was I who bugged the hell of the site owners for that forum, and now it probably is the most active of all pure nature Flora/Macro forums to be found. Active participation from "all members and moderators" is what got that forum to what it is today. A wonderful bunch of people!

Critiquing can be very hard for many to do.
Many individuals are nervous about it, getting that uneasy feeling as if they will launch missles to another country if they hit that submit button, then waiting for missles to come back to them!
As I have always told individuals who visit forums and wishing to "mix it up" with the gang, and those who are hesitant because of not knowing what to say, a simple "hey, I like this because of the lighting", ... or maybe, ... "oh man, I really like the composition you have here", ... something as simple as that will open the doors for you and helps you to get in that comfort zone for more in depth critiquing later down the road.
Just say something, "anything", and the more that you do, you will often learn more about your own photography as well!


Now, ..... off to do that damn Christmas time "honey do" list the wife gave me!
And, ..... anybody want a couple of snot nose teenage boys?
Sell'em to you cheap!!!

 

[Nill Toulme]

Well, we critique away in the Sports forum. I don't *think* we've let any images go by uncommented upon, or at least I hope not.

Poke your heads in there and see what you think of our tone, etc.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

 

[Asher Kelman]

I have a lot of trouble with the word critic. As in TV critic, film critic etc.

They have to FIND something wrong with the product no matter what, it's what they do.

I have seen some insultingly biting comments in forums that were not justified at all simply because someone asked for comments.

The nature of the web makes people feel comfortable enough to shoot away at will!

I am hoping that in this web forum that will not happen. I am here to learn not be shot down. I don't expect to be patted on the back for every photo but it's the "tone" of the feedback that matters.

I hope those of you with so much to share keep that in mind.

Jeff

Jeff

We're glad you are here as you are ready to share your photography and experience and grow in the process. All your points are perfect.

I am here to learn not be shot down. I'd say exchange experience.

comfortable enough to shoot away at will! Not quite. With real names, one wants to protect one's reputation. So that calms down destructive comments.

biting comments That and demeaning someone don't belong here. If someone is a real P.I.A. and so naive as to not have the ability to keep pace, then they unfortunately don't belong or if they do not have a clue, report them as they and the forum cannot benefit from their participation. However, we don't delete professional threads or posts. We try to set a standard for behavior.

I also will do everything I can to jealosly protect the Moderaotrs from stress.

So we will grow, but in quality.

I appreciate your input.

Asher

 

[Paul Bestwick]

without intending any offence, my comment in respect to the images is " so what" these are well exposed snaps. This is a pro (& advanced amatuer) forum, show me something that is going to invite applause, questioning of the method used to arrive at the result. If I want to see images like that (I don't particularly) then I could log onto one of the lesser forums (why bother) I have high hopes & expectations for this site, I seriously doubt it will meet those high standards.

Paul

 

[Asher Kelman]

Michael,

I was happy when you joined and know you bring a lot of photography experience and moderator mileage. We're looking forward to seeing your work. I don't want to make demands on you. I respect your input!

I also will try to get in here and mix it up with you guys a bit more than I have, and maybe to do some critiquing.
(Have been really busy!)

That will be appreciated and fun!

I will admit that for 3 years, I was the moderator of the Flora/Macro forum over at NatureScapes.Net.,.......................

It was I who bugged the hell of the site owners for that forum, and now it probably is the most active of all pure nature Flora/Macro forums to be found. Active participation from "all members and moderators" is what got that forum to what it is today. A wonderful bunch of people!

We're ready to have criticism of anything. If it could be damaging to something ongoing, then contact me so I can be involved and it isn't something that pressures you. No one should get pressured in any way.

Critiquing can be very hard for many to do.
Many individuals are nervous about it, getting that uneasy feeling as if they will launch missles to another country if they hit that submit button, then waiting for missles to come back to them!
As I have always told individuals who visit forums and wishing to "mix it up" with the gang, and those who are hesitant because of not knowing what to say, a simple "hey, I like this because of the lighting", ... or maybe, ... "oh man, I really like the composition you have here", ... something as simple as that will open the doors for you and helps you to get in that comfort zone for more in depth critiquing later down the road.
Just say something, "anything", and the more that you do, you will often learn more about your own photography as well!

I agree: comment, but don't flatter! It is unlikely that more than 10% are worth gallery showing, even way less!

Still we can learn by sharing experience. Brief comments are helpful,

Instructions with the original photograph essential to give context, wishes and restrictions, like

• 
  Purpose of the Post The when/ what/ how or why of the image in one brief remark.
• Comment only,
• no edit
• edit & suggestions
• Crop & suggestions
• Repair..e.g. skin blemishes

Asher

 

[Angela Weil]

Asher, you are right with your point. However, it is a difficult question.
I'm a member in a German online forum where the only reason for it's existence is to show pictures and talk about them: Just the image or a series, the concept, the idea, the light, the composition, what ever. There are even functions implemented via software that one can change someone's images without downloading to make a point and post the result next to it. Limited membership by application and yearly fees are installed to ensure that folks take it serious. There are only about 50 members right now.
The same thing happens. I post an image, I get some 137 views and as a rule two or three brief remarks. Only the most exceptional, the most controversial or the bad ones get more posts, if that. However, you have to ask by whose standard is something either exceptional or controversial or simply not well done?
It's amazing. We had many discussions about how to increase interest in posting and adding comments.
The inconclusive conclusion in no particular order:
There is a pattern of consumption that increases with the number of members in a forum.
It is work to post comments and to get involved.
To relate to an image is a personal process, therefore images tend to 'ring a bell' for some but not for others. Tastes and styles vary so much that it gets difficult to find a common 'language' in imaging. Which is fine, but you have little common ground to talk.
There will be groupings around certain subjects of interest (sports, portrait, landscapes...)
There will be personal relations that cause people to comment on the images of their buddies but not on the images of the others - or in the case of negative relations never on the images of some.
A lot of people do not want any other comment than 'Great', the others learn that quickly and stop or simply say 'Great'.
Some might feel intimidated by the (known or perceived) expertise of a poster and they do not think a comment could be of meaning.
Overload: After a while, one has seen a great number of images - if nothing particular sticks out, the impulse to comment gets lost in the haze.
Additional considerations:
To give a useful critique, you have to know what the poster wants to achieve or to express with the image. That takes more than just looking at an image in passing. You have to get to know the person first.
My view on things might not match up at all with someone else and it could be utterly unfair and ridiculous to impose my view on the other.
It seems, this question is hard to resolve. I did not list the above points to discourage commenting or excuse the lack of my own. The intention is quite the opposite. In the German forum, we have encouraged a few rules with moderate success: Don't post if you don't comment. Answer all comments. Avoid empty comments (like 'Great' or 'No way'). Give a reason for your opinion and explain your point of view. If you have a question concerning your posted image, say so and be as precise as possible. Think before you post - is there a reason why others should look at the picture(s)? Remember upload limits.
Well, as I said, moderate success.
Sometimes, it might be just as well to show what one is up to (look at my latest stuff...) and let it rest at that. Like an exchange of views - using images instead of words. No comments necessary, but a different set of images somehow related to the topic could be an answer.
Link to the German forum, where you can not see the comments: http://www.photoportale.de
Link to another German forum, where you can follow the comments even if you are not registered (in English): http://www.ball-saal.com
Greetings from Heidelberg
Angela

 

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks so much Anglela!

This is so helpful.

I will be inspired by these to design our updated interface for images.

I also like your own photographs.

The idea of the word "Workshop" has value, since it implies any editing, cropping or retouch.

This is different from Showcase, which is much simpler and that prevents misunderstanding.

Do you think a showcase without comments is worthwhile? It seems to me that real brickand mortar (or marble and glass) art galleries don't always ask for comments. However, my idea has always been to get feedback and honest exchanges.

Getting 3-5 honest comments is better than 20 "Wow!"s and "The greatest!s"

Asher

 

[Asher Kelman]

without intending any offence, my comment in respect to the images is " so what" these are well exposed snaps. This is a pro (& advanced amatuer) forum, show me something that is going to invite applause, questioning of the method used to arrive at the result. If I want to see images like that (I don't particularly) then I could log onto one of the lesser forums (why bother) I have high hopes & expectations for this site, I seriously doubt it will meet those high standards.

Paul

Paul,

I entirely share your comments except the conclusion.

We are currently working on the next phase of OPF which is considerable tightening up of the entry to OPF. This will occur in stages. The first one is to keep out spammers and the like. The next is too force the quality goals higher.

We are currently laboring to build the Pro DSLR, MF, LF and Rangefinder sections since these are more of Pro interest. We already have a large number of highly successful pros here as well most of the top designers of RAW software. Yes, the actual designers themselves.

There's no advertizing so we're free to mold this forum as we wish to make it a high level place for serious photgraphy, yet uncensored.

The whole image posting concept is up for revision, so please PM me and we can chat. We are upgrading shortly anyway.

We have our eye on our goals and I personally am open to all suggestions and criticism. however, for practical reasons, I want such ideas, especially controversial ones to come to me by PM so that the Team can discuss this in the light of what we already have on the table.

We don't want us to be diverting posting on the forum to many discussions on form.

Here, I just want to get people to post comment on the pictures they care about. No flattery, just succinct feedback.

Asher

 

[Paul Bestwick]

Hey Asher,

thanks for your response. My posts often seem a little hard edged as I tend to confront issues that others tiptoe around. Those people have greater diplomacy skills then I do, I prefer to call a spade a spade. I will retract my comment regarding the potential standard of the site, I am glad to hear about the future direction it is heading, it sounds very promising & I look forward to the many opportunities I will have to expand my skills & hopefully contribute in turn.

Cheers,

PAul

 

[Asher Kelman]

Ivan,

No we're not about to do anything drastic!

We are more concerned in getting current members integrated as a group with a known philosophy and to keep out spammers and others of the same ilk!

Next we'll look to the format of the galleries and how easy it is to show and find what might interest people.

At the same time we are both building the Pro end with the Pro DSLR's, LF and MF cameras as well as emphasizing the entry level forum to ease transition to digital.

The forum is carefully crafted and is being looked at closely to form it to serve getting to the finest prints and be a fun place to hang out. OPF is a live building that will always be looking to make itself more user friendly.

I look forward to everyone growing with the forum to promote each others work.

Asher

 

[Paul Bestwick]

Hi Ivan,

as I said, I intend no offence by my comments. As someone who would like to learn more ask yourself what you would prefer, A: a forum where competent camera operators post their snaps (which they are very proud of) or B: a forum where pros post images that are fantastic, and give the opportunity to ask questions as to how to achieve similair results. I would prefer B but don't want to sift through A to find the good stuff. If I see an image posted on the net I want it to be great. Keep in mind there are a number of forums on the net where photographers share their images, the standard ranges from ordinary to excellent & the users happily discuss the merits or otherwise of the postings. Whether that be their cat or favourite niece.
As for someone I know & like, they would not take an image of that standard, maybe if they were just snapping away at a family function perhaps.
Personally, I am painfully aware of my own shortcomings, that is why I am here.....hopefully I can learn a thing or two. Having said that, portraiture is how I make a living so it is my interest to constantly improve my standard.
I don't mind Picasso, I prefer Raphael though, blew me away when I saw some of his work in the Vatican.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Ivan Garcia]

Hi Ivan,

As I said, I intend no offence by my comments. As someone who would like to learn more ask yourself what you would prefer, A: a forum where competent camera operators post their snaps (which they are very proud of) or B: a forum where pros post images that are fantastic, and give the opportunity to ask questions as to how to achieve similar results. I would prefer B but don't want to sift through A to find the good stuff.

Is a matter of perception, I like to see astonishing images, and fortunately we get to see those here in spades, we are also very fortunate to have a group of people here, which go beyond the call of duty in their generous input.
I don’t think one can judge whether a particular poster is just a competent camera operator, or an accomplished pro by looking at the images he may post here, in this particular case I don’t see a snap, I see a an image which with careful post processing, can become a picture capable of generating powerful emotions, and is not because is my son or my image, I just recognise its potential. I would guess is just a matter of taste.

If I see an image posted on the net I want it to be great. Keep in mind there are a number of forums on the net where photographers share their images, the standard ranges from ordinary to excellent & the users happily discuss the merits or otherwise of the postings. Whether that be their cat or favourite niece.

I agree I want to see great pictures; I also like to see someone with latent talent grow before my eyes, which can only be accomplished by posting images and taking notice of the comments/advice given, then posting the resulting image after the lessons have been applied.
The forums you are talking about (most of them) have their function in the www. However, you are not likely to learn very much from them, they are mostly populated by people without the required knowledge to be of any help.

As for someone I know & like, they would not take an image of that standard, maybe if they were just snapping away at a family function perhaps.

Your opinion, you are entitle to have it and if so desired make it public; it is what makes a society grow, others may disagree though.

Personally, I am painfully aware of my own shortcomings, that is why I am here.....hopefully I can learn a thing or two.

Same reasons I am here.

Having said that, portraiture is how I make a living so it is my interest to constantly improve my standard.

Like I said before, I am not a pro, in the sense I don’t earn a living from photography, that doesn’t make me less worthy of participating here.

I don't mind Picasso, I prefer Raphael though, blew me away when I saw some of his work in the Vatican.

Cheers,

Paul

I’ve seen some of his work the Madonna with Christ and St. John the Baptist immediately springs to mind, although I haven’t seen his work at the Vatican, a trip which is in my to do before I die list.

 

[Steve Fines]

• 
  Purpose of the Post The when/ what/ how or why of the image in one brief remark.
• Comment only,
• no edit
• edit & suggestions
• Crop & suggestions
• Repair..e.g. skin blemishes

Asher

As I was reading through this thread I had a response ready, but then I saw Asher's last post and that pretty much summed up my thoughts.

 

[Asher Kelman]

John & Ivan,

I moved 3 posts to the original thread but they stayed here! When I deleted them here, they vanished into cyberspace. The White House is probably reading it right now!

Asher

 

[Ken Tanaka]

This thread needs another post like the Pacific Ocean needs another cup of water. But here's my cupful of thoughts. It may be (is) redundant with some other remarks.

• I wholeheartedly agree with others' comments that someone soliciting comments must provide some guidance in order to get any meaningful feedback. What bothers YOU about your image? What was your objective when you pressed the button?
• The comments often found on public venues generally lean towards congenial encouragement. But "awesome capture, dude", "great shot" and other such remarks are of no value whatsoever. If you can't be specifically constructive and lucid about what you like and what you think could be changed or done differently on an image just move along silently.
• The vast majority of camera owners spend their usually limited photographic time trying to simply achieve "competence" with the instrument. "Competence", in this context, can generally be defined as being able to consistently record what their mind's eye saw in scenes. They are not necessarily striving for artistic expression, at least not initially or consciously. Generally speaking, most folks take snapshots. That is, they take a picture because they're there, not necessarily the inverse. Critiquing snapshots is not worthwhile. Chances are that the scene cannot be recreated and the photographer has little idea of how it came to be in the first place. Suggestions for post-processing such one-off images might be fun but it would be more educational for the image's owner to take the initiative to explore alternatives on his/her own.
• Bodies of photographic work, accompanied by some background narrative, evoke much better critiques than single images. In such cases the photographer generally has a specific communicative objective and reviewers can assess whether or not the work is effective, at least to their eyes, toward that objective.
• Finally, if you want to submit images for comment on boards like this you must consider that it's nearly equivalent to pasting the image on a public street next to a pad of paper and a sign that reads, "Tell me what you think.". The majority of the public has no real grounding in art, composition, or fine photography. Their collective perspective is often conveyed by old saw, "I know what I like.". And what they "like" is generally cliché. Post a photo featuring (a) cute children, (b) cute animals, (c) cute women, (d) colorful sunsets, or (e) anything red and you're almost guaranteed at least one "awesome, dude". My point is that if you really want to offer your images for criticism on public forums you may be foolish to take the precipitation, good or bad, very seriously.

Antonio Correia recently posted a series of images here in which he solicited suggestions in what may be the perfect, and most productive, style. Rather than point to any specific image he asked how he could more effectively convey a particular feeling (rain, in this case). That was an excellent approach to soliciting comments on such a venue.

The best site for general photo critique I've seen is Craig Tanner's Radiant Vista. Craig offers video-based critiques of a new image each day. (I have no idea how he's managed to do this for so long, but often wonder if it might not be the result of some criminal conviction <g>.) Despite many of the images being, yes, very cliché Craig has an excellent and consistent style of approaching the evaluation of each image. Watching him do his thing is almost hypnotic. You may not always agree with him but I guarantee that you'll watch more than one video.

I'm done!