WhiBal

[Ron Morse]

Since I went digital I have had trouble getting my white balance right in my aquarium fish shots. I could get it I think quite close after a lot of fussing with temp and tint. I used to judge by the color of the gravel, fish colors and other things that I new by heart in aquariums. I have put rocks that I new were about the right color and even went so far as to use my wifes food vacuum packer to hold a grey card with a rock in the bottom to keep it from floating. The grey card was worse than nothing with the reflection from the vacuum bag by the flash.
A short time ago I got my WhiBal. It is a life saver and yes it floats. I tie it to a rock with a string and put it in the flash zone where I plan to take my pictures and take a shot. Actually I usually take the pictures first so as to not upset the fish and have them behave in a stressed manner. Then all I have to do is set the white balance to the WhiBal shot and the colors are right on the money. Nothing could be easier. I keep it attached to my camera so I will not forget to use it.
I love this thing.

Here is an example. It may look crude but it works.

 

[StuartRae]

Ron,

The WhiBal card works very well for this type of shot when the lighting is fairly uniform, and I find it invaluable for flourescent or tungsten lighting.

For landscapes, however, it's less reliable as the lighting can vary so much over the range of the shot. For instance I may be standing in the shadow of some trees taking a photo of distant sunlit mountains.

My only hope is to scatter large grey cards across the whole of the Lake District so that there's always a reference in the right place.

Someone on the RS forum had the idea, for medium range shots, of deploying the WhiBal dangling from the end of a long fishing rod. Could work!

Regards,

Stuart

 

[Don Lashier]

Ron,
For landscapes, however, it's less reliable as the lighting can vary so much over the range of the shot. For instance I may be standing in the shadow of some trees taking a photo of distant sunlit mountains.

While I sometimes find a grey card invaluable indoors, I don't like it at all for landscapes and don't even carry one anymore outdoors. In addition to the fact you point out that the WB where you hold the card may be quite different from the distant scene, I find that balancing to the card often drains all the wonderful ambience out of a shot, particularly at the golden hour which is my favorite shooting time.

- DL

 

[Asher Kelman]

For indoor social events where the light changes, I do a series of WhiBal shots at different spots and then group pictures in in iview to batch process them.

For a sunset shot with partial lighting, as on a veranda or deck, I'll do one shot for the veranda and develop one version from RAW and combine just a touch only the corrected deck part to retain the flavor of the lights their.

Asher

 

[Erik DeBill]

While I sometimes find a grey card invaluable indoors, I don't like it at all for landscapes and don't even carry one anymore outdoors. In addition to the fact you point out that the WB where you hold the card may be quite different from the distant scene, I find that balancing to the card often drains all the wonderful ambience out of a shot, particularly at the golden hour which is my favorite shooting time.

- DL

I find it depends on what I'm trying to do. Golden light should make the grey look golden, so there's no point balancing something that way (since balancing it will remove that golden color). However, if I've got a subject in the shade and want to eliminate blue or green cast (from foliage) then a whibal is a life saver. I find that I get much richer colors that way, vs manually tweaking white balance settings.

You have to make sure you actually want to make it appear grey, and that it's in the same light as the items you're trying to correct the color for.

 

[StuartRae]

There's another reason for using WhiBal in some raw converters, and this applies specifically to Raw Shooter.

I believe that MT had a large hand in creating the internal camera profiles, and would certainly have WhiBal'd his test suites.

By using a WhiBal card we therefore have an accurate basis for conversions, even if we wish to shift colours afterwards. Without that basic relationship between colours we're to some extent groping in the dark - or at least the grey

I'm not sure if Magne Nilsen used a WhiBal for his Color Engine profiles, but I imagine this would have been the case.

Regards,

Stuart

 

[Don Lashier]

I'm not sure if Magne Nilsen used a WhiBal for his Color Engine profiles, but I imagine this would have been the case.

I'm sure that much more elaborate targets than a simple white card are used for creating camera profiles although these do include grey scales.

- DL

 

[StuartRae]

I'm sure that much more elaborate targets than a simple white card are used for creating camera profiles

Don,

Yes, of course they are. What I'm saying is that whatever target was used would have been balanced (certainly in Michael's case) by a WhiBal.

Regards,

Stuart

 

[Michael Tapes]

Heck, I just love the aquarium setup! Actually a lot of our customers use WhiBal on dives, as well.

 

[nicolas claris]

1st try...

I received my Whibal card today and had a shoot outdoor a few minutes later...
Grey clouds, no sun, no artificial light, just day's light in a winter day... why use Whibal then? Grey is grey after all. Is it? Check the hull (it is not white, it is real light grey), check the clouds, the water (La Garonne river), the blue pants, the teal deck...
Obviously I find one much more real... Grey but happy day!
All other settings than white balance are the same.

I'll post more after my next inboat shoot……

 

[Nill Toulme]

Mais Nicolas — and Michael — which one is truly more accurate? To my eye the Whi-Bal'd image on right has a slightly warm, yellowish cast that is not truly evocative of a gray cloudy day on the river.

I am struggling somewhat with the same thing in my indoor sports shooting. Here is a more or less randomly chosen Whi-Bal'd image from one of Friday night's basketball games:

That gym is maddening because it has yellowish floors, yellowish beige walls, yellowish bleachers, and often for early games a mixture of artificial and window light. But at least the lights don't cycle as in most of the gyms I shoot — the WB seems to be consistent.

But I am struck by the remaining yellowish cast produced by the Whi-Bal WB. I always use the lighter of the two gray cards. I wonder if it's gone slightly blue? Or am I just doing something wrong?

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

 

[nicolas claris]

Hi Nill
Sorry not to answer sooner, but have been really busy these days, I'm going right now for an indoor shoot and will try more intensive use of the whibal and post more comments ...

 

[Nill Toulme]

Bon, merci.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

 

[nicolas claris]

So I did...
I agree with you for this outdoor/daylight shot, maybe the truth is in between, at least Whibal gives us a reference so we can tweak the raw some way between Whibal and camera white balanceS...

As per indoor, I just come back from a shoot into a museum.
All daylight was off (no window, or hidden).
Tungsten light only.
I have no pic to post now (I'm back home) but a quick test showed me that all Whibal tests were bringing me waaaaaay too neutral. To my taste.

For indoor with artificial light, I do like that the whites are not pure white (with all colors following) but a little bit casted. A question of atmosphere.
I think Whibal will help me to determine the right point between neutral and not overcasted images, a tweak that only the photog can do, and for this Whibal grey card can be a great help, though not automatic/easy as I stupidly thaught it could be.

I'll post some samples soon, as soon as clients let me breath a little...

Have all of you a good not too casted day!

 

[Don Lashier]

For indoor with artificial light, I do like that the whites are not pure white (with all colors following) but a little bit casted. A question of atmosphere.

Yes. The fact is that although our eye has a remarkable white balancing mechanism built-in, it doesn't pull all the way to neutral but just far enough. Look critically at shadows outdoors and you'll see that they're blue. Look critically at a white under tungsten and you'll see that it's warm. In addition, eyeball WB shifts (from a measured standpoint) with intensity. A grey/white card gives a good reference point but rarely IMO gives the exact setting desired except perhaps for product shots.

- DL

 

[Nill Toulme]

...not to mention my right eye sees warmer than my left. :-(

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

 

[Asher Kelman]

Don and Nicolas,

I agree! No grey card is meant to solve all the issues. for many social or snap shots one click is fine.

For professional work judgement, skill and experience, artistic feelings and insight are required. That is after all why some people and not others get hired again and again by the best agencies and highest paying clients!

Sunsets, gels over lights, refelctions from street or neon lights all give meaning. We don't necessarily to make everything drained of these hues or else all the pictures could be shot in the Alamo at high noon!

Asher

 

[Deleted member 55]

Is that not "WHY? BAL"

As in why bother?

 

[Don Lashier]

As in why bother?

I don't (bother) most of the time. In fact at the moment I lost track of mine around a year ago and haven't bothered to replace it. But I can see where it is more useful for some shooters/situations.

- DL

 

[Asher Kelman]

Will,

The problem with WhiBal for you is that it has no moving parts, old lenses or leather for you to take to pieces, spread all over the kitchen to annoy your wife and then get old parts from eBay to repair, replace and make it new again. How could one simple piece of plastic interest you?

However, should you ever put film in your film holders and shoot a still life picture in your wife's kitchen, with mixed daylight and tungsten, then that little piece of calibrated plastic might possibly come in handy.

Anyway, I'm just talking in possibilities so why ball you out for nothing!

I'm more interested in seeing you with your camera assembled and ready loads and we'll shoot together. Still-life first, then a model, in that order WhiBal included. That's the deal!

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

Done more work with Whibal, my interest in the product is increasing despite the already above stated "issues".
Here is an exemple taking from my last indoor shoot 3 days ago.

It's a Naval Architecture exhibition, in closed rooms in the Marine Museum of Rochefort, I mean really closed, windows blinded etc.
Lighting was tungsten only.
I wanted to keep the atmosphere (and by the way avoid battle with shadows...) and decided to shoot without adding light nor flash.
Each time (well nearly) I have moved the tripod and change angle of view, I've placed the Whibal in due position (same lighing as the subject).

Below is one of these test shots, very slighly cropped, all other settings remaining the same:

[EDIT] In camera WB means In camera auto WB[/EDIT]

I have to recognize that the Whibal helps a lot to start from a new -well color defined, here in Light Room- scratch and easy to correct according to my feeling and wish.

As professional photographers, most of us admit that it's better to shoot RAW. Then we have to admit that if Whibal is incorporated into our workflow we gain in quality and precision.

Do I have to say that Michael Tapes didn't pay me to write this? of course not! In fact he never wrote me about this and I may be angry not to have discovered sooner, as I'm sure it will help me to keep the right colors of wood (how difficult this is!) in the boat interior shots.

I'll post a new trial on this within the next weeks (hopefully)

 

[Ray West]

Hi Nicolas,

I'm sure they wouldn't mind if you just chiselled out a small piece of the wood, and took it home to match the colour, or else get a 'wood-bal' card. I can offer a range of sizes, from a plank to a splinter, in most types of timber you may need, and the timber is coloured all the way through, and most of them float, too. ;-)

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Asher Kelman]

Ray,

Of course, now we can use this for any event where there is tungsten, flurescent, both, these and daylight all in one large hall. In a digtial workflow, getting skin and clothing coor right is accomplished in just one click on your choice piece of wood!

Brilliant!

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

Thanks Ray for the cool tip, however I'm not sure it will work, I may mail to Michael for the Woodbal, great idea!

 

[Ray West]

Although you may think the chiselling was a joke, I have taken a flake of paint, before now.

So, when you have neutralised the colour cast to what? daylight? Then you print it on gloss, or matt paper, and view it under what lighting conditions? I guess you need control over everything.

Best wishes,

Ray

 

[Diane Fields]

Just my guess---but it looks as though Nicolas may be going to use it to go to 'corrected' WB (from his example he gave above)--then warm or cool a bit to his taste accounting for the lighting conditions he remembered (or wishes). This is how I use it---to have a start at 'corrected' and then tone a bit (for my commercial shots for furniture companies, I use the 'corrected' with no toning--I want it to be as close as possible to the 'real deal'---sometimes have fabric swatches).

Then--I'm guessing, if he is going to print it, he would be fully color managed and use profiles for his printer for each paper---and then the photo should change very little for each condition (as little metamerism as possible). However---maybe he will have a show under a particular kind of lighting---so may wish to view it under that particular light to adjust for the print to appear at its best advantage.

Remember--just a guess LOL.

Diane

 

[Asher Kelman]

Although you may think the chiselling was a joke, I have taken a flake of paint, before now.

So, when you have neutralised the colour cast to what? daylight? Then you print it on gloss, or matt paper, and view it under what lighting conditions? I guess you need control over everything.

Best wishes,

Ray

The stealing of a paint cheap is not far off! I take some of the paint sometimes from the inside of a cupboard or someplace where they wouldn't notice. I get permission!

Curating requires knowing how to show the piece. This applies not only to the choice of frame, and matt but also the size of print, brightness and color of the light.

Some pictures do not work in many locations!

It is not out of place, in my opinion to print one's pictures to be viewed in the actual light used so that your work show best.

This constrained use of the grey card reference is essential to retain the essence and mode of your artwork.

Sunsets, refelections from neon lights, added gels the green from trees cannot be obliterated senselessly and still have any emoption in a picture.

Still, for getting a baseline reference layer, or for skin tones and correct clothing or furniture colors, the WhiBal is perfect!

Still, artistry is needed for the old guy with the silk green grey suit and red-purple face (from booze or Rosacea) next to the walking-dead lady (with sallow yellow-faced skin), standing under tungsten light.

The WhiBal can give you the "truth", but you don't after all, want to show that!

So the WiBal is a simple tool that can be used by all photographers with benefit.

However, white balance itself must not harm the very emotional effects that exogenous hues can bring!

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

...--but it looks as though Nicolas may be going to use it to go to 'corrected' WB (from his example he gave above)--then warm or cool a bit to his taste accounting for the lighting conditions he remembered (or wishes). This is how I use it---to have a start at 'corrected' and then tone a bit (for my commercial shots for furniture companies, I use the 'corrected' with no toning--I want it to be as close as possible to the 'real deal'---sometimes have fabric swatches).

YES!
Not a guess... this is exactly what I intent to include in my workflow...

 

[nicolas claris]

However, white balance itself must not harm the very emotional effects that exogenous hues can bring!

Asher

Another YES!

 

[Michael Tapes]

I am in agreement. Whether the "pure" reference WB is used or not, the only way that the camera profile and Raw Converter can render the entire color spectrum properly, is to have a very accurate WB. If you want to adjust from there for creative reasons, of course go ahead, but doing so from the accurate reference makes this so much easier, and assures that you have the proper reference to judge your changes by.

Some people have perfect pitch. Some people have perfect "color sense". I have neither, so I use the WhiBal to always provide a proper reference, just like I might use a tuning fork in music/audio.

Thanks Nicolas (and all) for sharing your WB workflow.