Racism is thriving in the American Midwest

[Jack_Flesher]

Amazing... We're on a photography forum with an opportunity to have relevant photographic dialog, yet a thread on politics generates more baseless discussion than ten excellent threads do about imaging.

Pathetic.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Jack,

Amazing... We're on a photography forum with an opportunity to have relevant photographic dialog, yet a thread on politics generates more baseless discussion than ten excellent threads do about imaging.

Pathetic.

If I were you, I'd ask Asher for your money back for today's service.

And just think of, in the meantime, how many thousands of person hours were wasted in bars arguing about the latest gaffe of some basketball player. Why those people could have been out proving Fermat's last theorem, for God's sake.

But thank you for your message. It at least has advanced photographic technique, appreciation, and criticism (which doesn't happen much in this particular section). And it certainly qualifies as provocative, so it's properly lodged here.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Rachel Foster]

I apologize. It's my mistake. I misunderstood "provocative thoughts" and did not realize it had to be specifically about photography.

 

[doug anderson]

I'd hate to think that this election will be decided on race. I can't believe that there are that many people left who hate black people, or who don't know that most Muslims are peaceful people, and in any case, Obama is an African name, and not a Muslim name. I think our present administration, by its extreme actions in the world, has encouraged all the hate freaks to come out of the closet and speak their minds with impunity. The great dumbing down has been for the most part successful.

Oh, well. William James said that the notion that people improve with the passage of historical time is a "meliorative myth." If anything, there are more morons than ever.

 

[doug anderson]

Amazing... We're on a photography forum with an opportunity to have relevant photographic dialog, yet a thread on politics generates more baseless discussion than ten excellent threads do about imaging.

Pathetic.

Jack: I agree with you that there is not enough response to the photography threads.

I disagree with you that what we are saying is baseless. That's kind of insulting. There are plenty of very well informed people on this site.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Oh, well. William James said that the notion that people improve with the passage of historical time is a "meliorative myth."

Ameliorative.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Jack_Flesher]

Jack: I agree with you that there is not enough response to the photography threads.

I disagree with you that what we are saying is baseless. That's kind of insulting. There are plenty of very well informed people on this site.

Thanks Doug A, but clearly I am a minority on this forum. I think you all have a great future for turning OPF -- that's Open PHOTOGRAPHY Forums for those not aware -- into Open POLITICAL Forums.

And since this type of discussion is a waste of time for me, I will bid you all a permanent adieux*

*Permanent that is unless I feel the need to wax political, then of course I will return for the stimulating and unbiased political diatribe bandied about here.

Goodbye and good luck,

 

[Rachel Foster]

My intent was not to drive anyone away.

I will refrain from posting anything not directly related to photography in the future.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Jack,

And since this type of discussion is a waste of time for me, I will bid you all a permanent adieux*

That's adieu. Adieux is the plural. Perhaps you mean, "I will bid you all permanent adieux" (one for each of us).

It's a tough language.

In any case, vaya con dios.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Gary Ayala]

Our freedoms are measured by what we tolerate ... not by what we accept.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Another ism alive and well in Texas

Yes, this was "posed".

No Yankees were harmed making this photograph.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Rhys Sage]

Our freedoms are measured by what we tolerate ... not by what we accept.

I prefer:

"those who give up essential freedoms for the promise of a little temprorary security deserve neither liberty nor security".

 

[Doug Kerr]

Barack Obama was born on an island off Hawaii

Oahu. About 150 miles off the island of Hawaii.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Gary Ayala]

I prefer:

"those who give up essential freedoms for the promise of a little temprorary security deserve neither liberty nor security".

These statements are not mutually exclusive. Although Ben's quote has been around longer.

Gary

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I only want the person to be competent, educated, skilled, engaged, loyal, able to recognize and recruit valuable ideas and analysis, recognize flim-flam and flattery, resist corruption, be compassionate never lose empathy nor fall asleep on the job!

Hi Asher,

You forgot; "and to choose the right advisors as his team"!

The current president of the USA is only considered to be 'street smart', but to call him an intellectual high flyer would be a vast overstatement. That even makes it more important who his team is! Could one at least say that he chose the wrong people (which was to be expected)?

Obama is elegant, charming and a good speaker who can stand up and impress the pants of a crowd. I have no worry of him being a Muslim. My biggest worry is that he's naive about the dangers we face and that he feels that the differences between us and those that hate us is due to misunderstandings.

The last thing that pops up in my mind is of him as being naive. He seems to be one of the more clever candidates since quite a while. The capability to learn/adapt, and a capability of fast thinking would seem beneficial to a president, to me at least.

McCain I think would be better, but only id he doesn't die in office!

Well, in that case things are covered by someone who's personality imprint is based on moose hunting, and other things Alaskan, ...

Frankly, I'm amazed/disappointed by some of the things I observe (from a distance) during his presidential election 'show'. I'm afraid Rachel is right, race is still an issue, even if religion is used as a diversion (Doug's correct, religion doesn't equal race, but religion seems to be almost as effective in the USA without having to call it racism).

Bart

 

[Asher Kelman]

Asher, whether Obama or McCain is the better choice is irrelevant. It's the assumption that he is Muslim by virtue of being Black, firstly, and that Muslims are enemies of America, secondly.

What right does ANYONE have to come on MY property and deface MY political sign? What right does ANYONE have to challenge my right to free speech -- on MY property -- and my right to vote and campaign for whomever I choose?

If this person disagrees, let him/her put a McCain sign on his/her property! I'll not molest his/her rights as she/he did mine!

Rachel,

If you yell from your garden to passers by they might feel the right to reply. Putting law aside, it would be natural for folk aroused by you sentiments to offer their own. I have ripped people's signs from their hands and destroyed them because they were disgusting and racist. So imagine if you had such as sign or your neighbor did, expect it to be defaced from time to time.

 

[nicolas claris]

I apologize. It's my mistake. I misunderstood "provocative thoughts" and did not realize it had to be specifically about photography.

Bonsoir Rachel
You don't have to apologize, this thread is well placed in the "Provocative Thoughts and Images" forum.

We're proud that pro and amateur photogs may *also* share ideas about our world that we do make photographs of…

Before being photographers, we're all citizens of the planet.

You have already post so many images and contributions, one cannot argue that you're here only to have provocative thoughts…

 

[Rhys Sage]

"This message has been deleted by Nicolas Claris. Reason: Apology for a nazi political party"

If you feel that way then I feel sorry that you cannot understand the fact I was siding with no particular side, merely stating you cannot use the same actions as those that you oppose for using those same actions.

And I am not wasting any more time on this clearly biassed forum.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Rhys,

[I was] merely stating you cannot use the same actions as those that you oppose for using those same actions.

Of course one can. It happens all the time. There is hardly enough time to see all the instances of that on TV in any given day.

Perhaps you mean, "One should not use the same actions . . ."

And I am not wasting any more time on this clearly biassed forum.

You must really mean it, you say it once a week.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[doug anderson]

Ameliorative.

Best regards,

Doug

I know that's how the word is spelled. James shortened it for some reason.

 

[doug anderson]

Bonsoir Rachel
You don't have to apologize, this thread is well placed in the "Provocative Thoughts and Images" forum.

We're proud that pro and amateur photogs may *also* share ideas about our world that we do make photographs of…

Before being photographers, we're all citizens of the planet.

You have already post so many images and contributions, one cannot argue that you're here only to have provocative thoughts…

...thoughts AND images. Nothing wrong with just thoughts.

 

[doug anderson]

Thanks Doug A, but clearly I am a minority on this forum. I think you all have a great future for turning OPF -- that's Open PHOTOGRAPHY Forums for those not aware -- into Open POLITICAL Forums.,

This would only be true if I hadn't contributed to both the posting of photographs and the imaging discussions. I think you have misread the title of this particular forum: Provocative THOUGHTS and images. I don't really have that much power, to turn OPF into anything. What's with the attitude? Perhaps it's the content of my statements which you are afraid to engage at the level of thought.

 

[Asher Kelman]

This part of OPF is to allow an escape valve for the realities of our society. This we hope will be accompanied by photographs stimulated by open discussion. We just need to remember that we are indeed here for photography!

Show humor and pictures. For every post here, make sure there's two photos posted, here or elsewhere in OPF. Jack to some extent is correct if all we do is talk! Perhaps, Jack's mistaken in seeing little value in this particular activity, because discussion does at least tell us that what we are certain about is often not fully examined!

Yes, the talk is not always up to snuff. We make do and struggle, sometimes showing superficial understanding. We may not even have sufficient facts or insight to get to the truth or adequte answers to our questions and challenges.

Still, discussion primes the mind!

So the next time we're being fed from our favorite news sources, we'll take pause and question motivations, accuracy, selective reporting and, yes, selective outrage!

So keep on with debate; just make it courteous and non-dogmatic! The smartest contributions could very well be a photograph by you.

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

I came home tonight to find this. This is my lawn, my sign. Not my note.

May I recall everyone here that this thread did start with a picture.
Not arty, not really PJ, I'd like to see more of the context around the sign… Neighborhood?
Dunno, but Rachel were just right, posting a picture explaining why she was/is outraged.

Right on track!

 

[Asher Kelman]

May I recall everyone here that this thread did start with a picture.
Not arty, not really PJ, I'd like to see more of the context around the sign… Neighborhood?
Dunno, but Rachel were just right, posting a picture explaining why she was/is outraged.

Right on track!

Of course you're right, Nicolas!

I was referring to Jack Flesher's reaction and feel that we should try to find other photographs which add to the discussion. Failing that, posting more pictures elsewhere in OPF keeps us in balance. BTW, our posts yesterday were an all time high for a friday!

Asher

 

[doug anderson]

This part of OPF is to allow an escape valve for the realities of our society. This we hope will be accompanied by photographs stimulated by open discussion. We just need to remember that we are indeed here for photography!

Show humor and pictures. For every post here, make sure there's two photos posted, here or elsewhere in OPF. Jack to some extent is correct if all we do is talk! Perhaps, Jack's mistaken in seeing little value in this particular activity, because discussion does at least tell us that what we are certain about is often not fully examined!

Yes, the talk is not always up to snuff. We make do and struggle, sometimes showing superficial understanding. We may not even have sufficient facts or insight to get to the truth or adequte answers to our questions and challenges.

Still, discussion primes the mind!

So the next time we're being fed from our favorite news sources, we'll take pause and question motivations, accuracy, selective reporting and, yes, selective outrage!

So keep on with debate; just make it courteous and non-dogmatic! The smartest contributions could very well be a photograph by you.

Asher

I love "selective outrage."

 

[doug anderson]

I prefer:

"those who give up essential freedoms for the promise of a little temprorary security deserve neither liberty nor security".

I agree, and the present administration is asking us to give up our liberties.

 

[Gary Ayala]

What I appreciate is the opportunity to see how the rest of the world, (and our international peers), view our society and our institutions. I am fasinated by the comments on how governments govern in other countries.

In todays world of global economics and communications, although not a criterium for deciding US action, it is important to be sensitive to word opinion and how an action in the US effects other countries.

To address Jack's concerns, (whom I have little regard), these non-photographic discussions will open the minds, (of those who are willing to be open minded), to different ideas, values and ways of life. Either directly or indirectly, new ideas will affect the photographer vision and how we see and record our world.

Gary

 

[nicolas claris]

Either directly or indirectly, new ideas will affect the photographer vision and how we see and record our world.

Gary

Simply true…

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

What I appreciate is the opportunity to see how the rest of the world, (and our international peers), view our society and our institutions. I am fasinated by the comments on how governments govern in other countries.

It's always beneficial to step back and allow a look from the outside in, either by oneself or by others. The differences that become apparent from a different perspective can help to improve one's outlook.

... these non-photographic discussions will open the minds, (of those who are willing to be open minded), to different ideas, values and ways of life. Either directly or indirectly, new ideas will affect the photographer vision and how we see and record our world.

My thoughts exactly. Photographers develop a vision/style as a result of, or in reaction to, their exposure to outside influences.

Bart