Racism is thriving in the American Midwest

[Nill Toulme]

Pat Buchanan wrote a column the other day, perhaps the only thing he ever wrote in his life that I agreed with. One of his major themes in the piece was that, as a group, we Americans seem to be uniquely incapable of seeing ourselves as others see us.

Nill

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Nill,

Pat Buchanan wrote a column the other day, perhaps the only thing he ever wrote in his life that I agreed with. One of his major themes in the piece was that, as a group, we Americans seem to be uniquely incapable of seeing ourselves as others see us.

"O wad some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us."
--Robert Burns, "To a Louse; on Seeing One on a Lady's Bonnet at Church (1786)"

Auld Robbie was certainly ahead of his time!

Best regards,

Doug

 

[doug anderson]

People remark daily that there is no political dialogue in this country. If mainstream media is an indicator of what people think, it's commie liberal baby killers against six-toed religious extremists. Neither position describes the population, even though the Rovians have gone to great lengths to keep this hysterical polarity in place. Most left-leaning intellectuals have no idea who the working class is, nor do people on the extreme right have any idea of what a "liberal" is.

It's become a dangerous, reactive situation in which few real ideas are being exchanged. A lot of what passes for thought is merely hard wired reaction.

I had a conversation with a guy at the dump last year. He had a bumper sticker on his car that read: TED KENNEDY KILLED MORE PEOPLE WITH HIS CAR THAN I EVER DID WITH MY GUN. I thought he might have a sense of humor and be approachable. But when we got to the subject of Iraq, and I was arguing that there were no Iraqis involved in 9/11, and in fact the high-jackers came from Iran, Yemen and our ally, Saudi Arabia, all he could do was keep repeating, "9/11 was our Pearl Harbor." That is not thought. He seemed to have found a new identity in hatred and no one was going to convince him that his basic assumptions were wrong.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Doug,

I had a conversation with a guy at the dump last year. He had a bumper sticker on his car that read: TED KENNEDY KILLED MORE PEOPLE WITH HIS CAR THAN I EVER DID WITH MY GUN. I thought he might have a sense of humor and be approachable. But when we got to the subject of Iraq, and I was arguing that there were no Iraqis involved in 9/11, and in fact the high-jackers came from Iran, Yemen and our ally, Saudi Arabia, all he could do was keep repeating, "9/11 was our Pearl Harbor." That is not thought. He seemed to have found a new identity in hatred and no one was going to convince him that his basic assumptions were wrong.

As a telecom engineer by profession and inclination, I am often depressed by the thought that the invention of radio broadcast (AM it was, we should note here) eventually led to such a potent tool for the sustenance of this form and polarity of cultivated ignorance (even among people that otherwise seem quite reasonable).

History may conclude that it was the Galvins' invention of the automobile radio that eventually led to the ruination of our society!

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Nill Toulme]

Nicholas Kristof's column today is right on point with our current discussion:

Here’s a sad monument to the sleaziness of this presidential campaign: Almost one-third of voters “know” that Barack Obama is a Muslim or believe that he could be.

In short, the political campaign to transform Mr. Obama into a Muslim is succeeding. The real loser as that happens isn’t just Mr. Obama, but our entire political process.
...

(Just imagine for a moment if it were the black candidate in this election, rather than the white candidate, who was born in Central America, was an indifferent churchgoer, had graduated near the bottom of his university class, had dumped his first wife, had regularly displayed an explosive and profane temper, and had referred to the Pakistani-Iraqi border ...)

What is happening, I think, is this: religious prejudice is becoming a proxy for racial prejudice. In public at least, it’s not acceptable to express reservations about a candidate’s skin color, so discomfort about race is sublimated into concerns about whether Mr. Obama is sufficiently Christian.

The result is this campaign to “otherize” Mr. Obama. Nobody needs to point out that he is black, but there’s a persistent effort to exaggerate other differences, to de-Americanize him. ...​

​

Complete column here.

Nill

 

[doug anderson]

Nicholas Kristof's column today is right on point with our current discussion:

Here’s a sad monument to the sleaziness of this presidential campaign: Almost one-third of voters “know” that Barack Obama is a Muslim or believe that he could be.

In short, the political campaign to transform Mr. Obama into a Muslim is succeeding. The real loser as that happens isn’t just Mr. Obama, but our entire political process.
...

(Just imagine for a moment if it were the black candidate in this election, rather than the white candidate, who was born in Central America, was an indifferent churchgoer, had graduated near the bottom of his university class, had dumped his first wife, had regularly displayed an explosive and profane temper, and had referred to the Pakistani-Iraqi border ...)

What is happening, I think, is this: religious prejudice is becoming a proxy for racial prejudice. In public at least, it’s not acceptable to express reservations about a candidate’s skin color, so discomfort about race is sublimated into concerns about whether Mr. Obama is sufficiently Christian.

The result is this campaign to “otherize” Mr. Obama. Nobody needs to point out that he is black, but there’s a persistent effort to exaggerate other differences, to de-Americanize him. ...​

​

Complete column here.

Nill

Thanks for this. I love the word "otherize." The Nazis were quite adept at this kind of thing.

 

[Rachel Foster]

Sad, ain't it?

 

[Gary Ayala]

*sigh* ... Swift-Boating ... (which is now a verb).

 

[doug anderson]

The Swift-boaters days are numbered. People are prepared to go after them.

 

[Nill Toulme]

Even some extremely conservative people are beginning to acknowledge the dangers of a McCain/Palin victory. See, for example, George Will's comments here.

Nill

 

[Doug Kerr]

Even some extremely conservative people are beginning to acknowledge the dangers of a McCain/Palin victory. See, for example, George Will's comments here

Yes, we watched it at breakfast (the "cabinet meeting and intelligence briefing"). George Will is definitely conservative in his political leanings, but is intelligent and reasonable, and always a pleasure to hear.

But we were a bit startled by his outlook this morning.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Gary Ayala]

Even some extremely conservative people are beginning to acknowledge the dangers of a McCain/Palin victory. See, for example, George Will's comments here.

Nill

Hey, McCain has 13 cars ... Obama has one ... oh yeah George Will ...

 

[doug anderson]

Even some extremely conservative people are beginning to acknowledge the dangers of a McCain/Palin victory. See, for example, George Will's comments here.

Nill[/QUOTE


Word is, many conservatives are really disturbed about what's going on with McCain and Palin, as well as the damage done by the Bush Administration.

 

[Doug Kerr]

Hi, Doug,

Word is, many conservatives are really disturbed about what's going on with McCain and Palin, as well as the damage done by the Bush Administration.

Well, indeed.

Recent Republican administrations, and that of George W Bush in particular, have made a mockery of a political outlook to which I used to be attracted - and still could be, if we ever had a Republican administration that could actually honor and practice it.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[doug anderson]

Hi, Doug,


Well, indeed.

Recent Republican administrations, and that of George W Bush in particular, have made a mockery of a political outlook to which I used to be attracted - and still could be, if we ever had a Republican administration that could actually honor and practice it.

Best regards,

Doug

It's been a while.

 

[Nill Toulme]

Another apt article here:

A blatant example surfaced earlier this month, when a Georgia Republican, Representative Lynn Westmoreland, described the Obamas as “uppity” in response to a reporter’s question.
...
...Representative Geoff Davis, Republican of Kentucky, succumbed to the old language earlier this year when describing what he viewed as Mr. Obama’s lack of preparedness to handle nuclear policy. “That boy’s finger does not need to be on the button,” he said.
...
The throwback references that have surfaced in the campaign suggest that Republicans are fighting on racial grounds, even when express references to race are not evident. In a replay of elections past, the G.O.P. will try to leverage racial ghosts and fears without getting its hands visibly dirty. ...​

Nill

 

[Rachel Foster]

"Uppity?" UPPITY? OMG.

 

[Gary Ayala]

Yep ... those Obamas need to know their place ... is "uppity" racist? (he might as well have called them shiftless and lazy as well) ... was that Congressman Jim Crow?

Once again, regardless of your presidential preference ... it is a testiment to the rest of the country that Obama has made it to the general and that a minority candidate has a bona fide opportunity to win it all.

 

[Michael_Stones]

And this thread started because someone defaced a campaign poster ... What a horrible disaster!

... hence the deduction that racism is rampant in the midwest ... I've got news for you: it's rampant everywhere.

And you wonder, elsewhere in the tread, what other people think of you ... For a start: that you're way too self-absorbed.

... because knowing what other people think of you will help you become better photographers ... It might if you get out of Starbucks or the wine bar, put down the latest media guru's epistle, and while chugging some beer of a morning with guys just off the night shift ... really listen to what they say.

 

[Nill Toulme]

...while chugging some beer of a morning with guys just off the night shift ... really listen to what they say.

I'll bite... what is it that doing that has taught you?

Nill

 

[Asher Kelman]

Thanks Michael,

We need to be balanced and rational and not use this baseless defacement of a Rachel's poster as any measure of racism in the Mid West. Also our community should weigh allowing this incident to become a rallying point against people who's philosophy leans in support of a Republican or right wing Agenda. Rather we, as more careful citizens, will look at each policy and action in it's own context and level of real relevance to society.

Asher

 

[Rachel Foster]

I see it a bit differently than a simple defacement of a campaign poster. That would be drawing a mustache on Palin's photo, maybe.

Someone trespassed onto my property to leave a racist statement on a campaign poster stating my choice for president. I have the right to free speech and my freedom to vote for whomever I choose is/should be inviolable.

I do not go down the street and deface McCain/Palin posters with biased, unfounded nonsense. Those who disagree with me have as much right to put campaign posters on their property as I do mine. And I will not touch them.

Someone felt the need to leave a racist statement on my property. That is my outrage. Those who disagree with my choice...use your free speech! Do not attempt to silence mine. Not on MY property, anyway.

Now, if Asher or the admins/mods felt the need to silence me on this topic on this forum, they have that right and I will peacefully do so. That's different. This is not MY property and free speech does not apply here.

And perhaps I am self-absorbed. I'll consider that carefully.


**Note: I said Midwest because it happened here. That does not mean racism does not exist everywhere.

 

[Nill Toulme]

Clearly, both the image and the thought(s) were and continue to be provocative, so I think this has to be considered a very successful thread in the context of this forum. ;-)

Nill

 

[Michael_Stones]

I'll bite... what is it that doing that has taught you?

Nill

Just to walk, at least in imagination, in someone else's shoes for a while. I have a background in clinical psychology though haven't practiced for decades. But what experiences with psychiatric patients, prisoners in jail, older people with dementia, etc. taught me was that if you really listen and look, the craziest, most disturbing behavior can become understandable from their frame of reference. People live in different realities. The photographers I admire the most came to similar conclusions and embraced them in their work. That knowledge helps me not to get too irate with those whose ideas and lifestyle I don't share.

 

[Nill Toulme]

I understand and quite agree, thanks.

What worries me in the context of the current political climate is some of these "different realities" becoming manifest ... e.g., the "different reality" that Obama is a Muslim, or the anti-Christ. ;-)

(I saw a post somewhere the other day that I enjoyed... it said, more or less, "If you believe Obama is the anti-Christ, do you really think you can defeat him by voting against him?)

Nill

 

[Asher Kelman]

I understand and quite agree, thanks.

What worries me in the context of the current political climate is some of these "different realities" becoming manifest ... e.g., the "different reality" that Obama is a Muslim, or the anti-Christ. ;-)

(I saw a post somewhere the other day that I enjoyed... it said, more or less, "If you believe Obama is the anti-Christ, do you really think you can defeat him by voting against him?)

Nill

Nill,

There's a great chance that Obama, even with Hussein as his middle name, will be the next President of the USA! That has to mean that we are not totally fooled by our dogma and delusions. We manage somehow, in spite of people being ignorant about biology, (the creationists), logarithmic growth (of people who live through infancy because of clean water) and our economic Ponzi schemes, (e.g. free markets ).

Both McCain and Obama will likely bomb as much and make good and poor judgments. I don't think it matters much that some people think Obama is Muslim or even if he is Muslim.

What's essential, and met by both candidate is their loyalty to this country and sense of humanity, although I wish Senator Obama had had more of some outrage from the goings on at his church.

Republicans are not necessarily wrong always. Bush was just not fit to run a war, (that's all even if it was fully justified). On the whole, I'm optimistic because sufficient real-world disasters will eventually teach them enough science to be respectful of human limitations. Unfortunately we don't seem to learn well until almost all the fish are dead!

Asher

 

[Nill Toulme]

I think it may be only the 4% in the middle, the ones who determine which way the 52%/48% outcome will fall, who ever learn anything at all. And I'm beginning to have my doubts about them!

The other 96% of us just know. ;-)

Nill

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

In a replay of elections past, the G.O.P. will try to leverage racial ghosts and fears without getting its hands visibly dirty. ...​

Nill

That depends on whether someone confronts them with their remarks in public. The sleazy Rove style tactics should backfire on their senders (regardless which faction uses them).

Bart

 

[Doug Kerr]

It doesn't seem to me that our colleague Will Thompson is a very religious guy, but I heard that he has a muslin background.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Nill Toulme]

Ouch. ;-)

Nill